Urn with crest and unusual hallmarks (pseudo?)

[Biju]

Can anyone make sense of the marks on this urn and possibly identify the family of the crest?
TIA!

[Biju]

[Traintime]

See this thread: viewtopic.php?p=214561&hilit=ram+mark#p214561

Your 4th mark after the ram looks like it might be conjoined gothic of letters EP (for electroplate)?

[Traintime]

No, it’s definitely the pseudo crown mark.

[Biju]

I've had someone on antiquers refer me to these two sources, but it's hard to reconcile their two attributions of age and intent:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Ma ... frontcover

viewtopic.php?t=62600

[dragonflywink]

In my opinion, for what it's worth, despite what may be found online, this is an American silverplate piece produced in the early 20th century with spurious marks and a fantasy heraldic achievement:


Someone on a different forum posted the link to the 1928 article in The American Magazine of Art, one primarily opinion and conjecture, not surprising considering the research sources available at the time - the photo appears to show a piece identical to yours including the same heraldic achievement:




Someone else posted a link to a piece appearing to be the same as yours including the same heraldic achievement, currently shown online:




I posted some information including links to this site, as well as a personal opinion, based on casual research over time, that the 'ram' marks might be some used by F. & M. Weintraub, possibly after the 1910 injunction against using marks like Gorham's and their failed defense against Gorham's 1912 trademark infringement lawsuit. Also filed by Gorham at the same time were suits against two retailers selling pieces with the deceptive marks, one stating they acquired "Sheffield Plate' from Weintraub, and one that sold 'antiques' in addition to regular stock. Weintraub stated that they used various trademarks on pieces to dealers buying their silverplated goods


This is the 1910 notice placed by Gorham - note the marks at right show a turned Old English letter similar to the mark shown in the clip below this from the 1928 article, which also mentions "a rude profile of His Britannic Majesty" (numerous variants of a bearded head were used on pieces produced by the Sheffield Silver Co., with a 1918 incorporation as the 'Weintraub-Sheffield Silver Co.').











From Rainwater, 4th ed.:






Images of 'ram' marks posted by Trev:




Images of 'Weintraub' marks posted by Trev:




~Cheryl

[Biju]

Thank you so much Cheryl - very interesting information! I tend to also believe it's early 20thC American with quite an interesting choice of mark imitations.

Cheers,
Biju

[Bahner]

Brilliant Cheryl, thank you ! Regards B.

[amena]

Just curious
What does ALOS mean in the cartouche?
I didn't find anything in the dictionary
Amena

[Sasropakis]

Just curious
What does ALOS mean in the cartouche?
I didn't find anything in the dictionary
Amena

Could be a corrupt conjugation of a Latin verb alere (to nourish). Not sure which would be the correct one though. The heraldic achievement isn’t that convincing either so one would expect bad Latin too.