Unknown hallmarks on Dutch silver watch seal fobs

[Re-Elu]

I recently bought a set of two silver seal fobs on a split ring (on a rolo chain) at an online auction. I was hoping for an antique one
but my expections were that it was a vintage revival piece (perhaps from Niekerk in Schoonhoven).
After it arrived I took a closer look at the hallmarks, and the silver hallmarks seems to be of the old sword variety (1814-1906). I cannot decipher the other marks.

I was able to find a total of 5 hallmarks (photos enclosed):
- a sword on the split ring
- another hallmark on the split ring, containing the letter B
- a sword on one of the fobs
- an unknown/illegible hallmark on the same fob
- an unknown/illegible hallmark on the other fob
(I could not discover any hallmarks on the chain)

I am afraid that the unknown hallmarks on the fobs can no longer be read due to wear. I tried to compare the unknown hallmark on the split ring with Dutch makers marks on the online databases (that I know of), but I could not find a match.
Maybe someone here recognizes it? And can anyone confirm that the sword hallmarkd is indeed the sword from 1814-1906 or the sword used from 1906-1953?

Thanks,
Natascha




- hallmarks on the split ring: sword and maker's mark (?) containing the letter B




- a sword on one of the fobs


- unknown/illegible hallmarks on fobs

[oel]

Hi, welcome back after so many years.



The mark on the (split) ring, ADR above bird(swan)? in lozenge for Andries de Roever, registered in Amsterdam, 1792-1833.
During the time of the Amsterdam gold & silver guild Andries used the mark ADR (script capitals) in a rectangle. During the French occupation of The Netherlands, when we were part of the French Empire (1810-1813), Andries had to use this particular mark in a lozenge as of March 1812, and he continued to use it until his retirement in 1833. Andries de Roever, born 1767, reformed, married 1783 to Alida Klijnhidding, master silversmith in 1792. Died in Deventer in 1845.
He runs a large factory in the Torensteeg in Amsterdam, where he also has a shop. Here on the (split) ring we see his lozenge mark in combination with the hallmarks of the kingdom of The Netherlands, the sword mark used 1814-1906.
Sword mark, standard mark for; small work silver minimum 833 fineness= 83.3% pure silver and used on small work without date letter and office mark and in combination with maker's mark. NB. This sword mark also used on large work consisting of more than three parts interconnected by links or hinges. On these objects the office mark, standard mark and date letter were spread, one per part, the remaining parts were struck with the sword mark.
In 1833 he handed over the workshop to his son Nicolaas, registered in Amsterdam 1817-1856, as Nicolaas Andriesz de Roever. Nicolaas used the maker's mark NR. in different frame shapes but also NR conjoined under a scythe in a square, 1817-1856.

Perhaps the "worn" unclear maker's marks on the fob's are for Nicolaas the son of Andries de Roever.

Peter.


Source; WaarborgHolland, ˜Netherlands' Responsibility Marks since 1797, Karel A. Citroen, Amsterdamse Zilversmeden en hun merken.

[Re-Elu]

Thank you so much for the detailed formation!
So if I understand correctly this piece is from 1812 - 1833, and possibly made by father (ring) and son (fobs)?
I'm surprised by its age, did not expect that. It's in great condition (needs some cleaning though, lots of grime has on the inside of the fobs) considering its age. One of the silver dome shaped ornaments is missing from one of the fobs, but the spot where it used to be attached feels relatively smooth, so my guess it that it was lost quite some time ago.

[oel]

Hi Natascha,

Yes, you understand correctly ring made by the father and fobs possibly added later by the son.

Peter.