84 spoon

[silverstar777]

hello can anyone tell me about hallmarks 1894 year thx

[Mart]

Hello!
Perhaps this is the brand of the silver workshop of Pelageya Efimovna Ivanova ( Пелагея Ефимовна Иванова) "ПЕИ". She changed her brand in 1893-1894 and perhaps there is an unsuccessful result on your product. The punch is upside down on your photo.

[silverstar777]

hello its А.О( or А.С ) not Л.О also masters mark is ПСИ

[Mart]

It makes no difference who the assayer was: AС, AA, ЛO or AР.
Spoons are a mass-produced product most often. There are many spoons bearing the "ПЕИ" stamp in these years. I haven't seen any spoons marked "ПСИ". This gives reason to assume that the defective mark "ПЕИ" is on your product, where the error is in the letter "E". At the same time there is a stamp with an inverted letter "И".

[Qrt.S]

????? It makes a big difference who the assayer is (or isn't!). It is always of utmost importance to have him identified as well as matched with the year, town and maker's mark! The assayer's initials seems to be rather clear AC (Latin AS). That would be Aleksandr Skovronsky in Moscow 1894-1908. A full match with the year on the spoon. In my eyes the maker's mark is ПСИ (PSI) and that would be Praskovia Semyonova Izrailovich active in Moscow at that time. Praskovia is a woman's name that indicates that she is either the widow or daughter who has inherited the company giving her the legal right to use a punch of her own until her death. Anyway, she has NOT made the spoon only approved it with her punch. It is made in the factory by somebody else. A rather common procedure at that time. The factory is known to have made spoons among other things.

Moreover, it could be a bad punch as Mart anticipated, but I don't think so because an identification is made with the ПСИ punch as well as the assayer AC is identified. In other words a perfect match!

[Mart]

1. It is absolutely indifferent: the brand of which probirer (of the four I mentioned earlier) can be seen on the product in 1894.
2. You found Ms. Israilovich in the Ivanov directory, which is mentioned there 15 years after the date of manufacture of the spoon. She is the owner of the STORE. You don't know anything about her, you haven't seen the brand "ПСИ", but you think it's her. This is a very dirty attribution method.
Ivanova's silver workshop produced spoons specifically in 1894.
3. You specified incorrectly the period of Alexander Skovronsky's work in Moscow.
Have a nice day!

[Qrt.S]

Where from did you pick the information, from the sky again??? As said before you have no idea where from my information is taken, only assumptions. The punch shows clearly ПСИ but not ПЕИ so that's that!

I haven't seen any spoons marked "ПСИ".

Take a look at the spoon and you will clearly see ПСИ for the first time, but not ПЕИ as you "think" would be a bad punch. Nothing more to add or discuss!

[Mart]

Oh, your famous secret sources of information! However, each of them contains all the same errors that are in publicly available sources. Except for a few cases when you found information about Finnish silversmiths.
Maybe in your sources there is information about these brands, in which you can see non-existing letters of the alphabet?

[oel]

In my opinion the mark could read ПЕИ and not ПCИ, the E in ПЕИ missing his 2nd horizontal bar, weak mark and or made with/damaged punch.
If the mark ПСИ exist, are there examples/images of this mark?


Peter.

[Mart]

The silversmith could make his hallmark himself, or order from an engraver, or order at the mint. It is possible that Ivanova had some problem in making the hallmark during these years, and the mistake was made even during the manufacture of the hallmark. Mistakes are sometimes found. Most often, the mistake was in the letter "И", which became similar to "N".

[silverstar777]

omg what a discussion if it will hepl you i can take another picture of masters mark as clearly as my iphone can

[oel]

Yes please do, some clear enhanced images of the mark is very helpful. Idealy images made from a few different angles. Thank you for your cooperation.

Peter.