Russian enameled goblet

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meyrink
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Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:14 am

Russian enameled goblet

Post by meyrink »

Can you share your opinion on this hallmark? Is Michail Ovchinnikov real or fake?

Thank you, meyrink

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Dad
contributor
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Location: St. Petersburg

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by Dad »

Hi, Meyrink.

I'm sorry, but it's fake. ((

Best Reg..
meyrink
contributor
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:14 am

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by meyrink »

Thanks Dad, I had suspicion.. Its not my object. Could this mark exist at all or must be warrant eagle on it?
sanna_w
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:00 am
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by sanna_w »

meyrink wrote:Thanks Dad, I had suspicion.. Its not my object. Could this mark exist at all or must be warrant eagle on it?
hi meyrink! maybe its little too late for the answer but any way... the original M.Ovchinnikov should be looking like this:
Image
Zolotnik
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by Zolotnik »

Hi sanna_w -

do you know that this is a fake mark?

Regards
Zolotnik
sanna_w
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:00 am
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by sanna_w »

Zolotnik wrote:Hi sanna_w -

do you know that this is a fake mark?

Regards
Zolotnik
hi Zolotnik!
is it? but why?..
Zolotnik
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by Zolotnik »

Hi sanna_w -

(When you contact expert´s support, a lot of people feel they´re talking to an idiot or being treated like one.)Just ajoke!!!

1) The shown mark is a cast (see the grain and the blurred rims?) - an authentic mark is punched with a steel stamp and is sharp and crisp.
2) Some details are very wrong.

Here an 4mm example in Macro:

Image

See the difference? Now compare...

Regards
Zolotnik
sanna_w
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:00 am
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by sanna_w »

(amin edit)

yes, i see, the photo is quite clear shows the 2 marks. but i can't understand how the second one connectes to M.Ovchinnikov (we re talking about the Ovchinnikov's mark from beginning, re we?)? or i misunderstood something? i mean, as i understood, these marks on your photo belong to M.Ovchinnikov? maybe i'm missing your point, can also happen. (i don't endeavor to try on the expert crown, just search for the correct knowledges which can help as me as the other members...)
oel
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Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by oel »

Hi,

Zolotnik shows us sharp and crisp marks which are punched to compare with your soft and blurred casted mark of M.Ovchinnikov; not punched but casted and thus a fake mark.
For more information please read (PDF file);
An analysis of silver candlesticks
from a casting point of view: originals,
copies, forgeries


http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 3y-ZJcLLHA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Oel
Zolotnik
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by Zolotnik »

Hi sanna_w -
Zolotnik wrote: 1) The shown mark is a cast (see the grain and the blurred rims?) - an authentic mark is punched with a steel stamp and is sharp and crisp.
2) Some details are very wrong.
You did not understand and/or ignored my example and explanation.
Here is another try:

Fake mark

Image

Authentic mark

Image

If you do not understand that too - I give up!

Regards
Zolotnik
sanna_w
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:00 am
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by sanna_w »

(Admin edit)

no no, it was just misunderstanding from my side and thank u for your explanation and patience! the matter is that i found that photo which i added here on the one quite serios source in internet and was really surprised that it's a fake. my mistake was that i didn't check the authenticity of the stamp before i put it here. but any way, its good that we continue to talk about this subject cause meyrink got the answer :) and i also learn something new for me. as i told, i'm not expert but really interesting in such things, reading information in internet and books, collecting old silver jewels.

oel, thank you for your help! best regards guys!
GiulyF
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:37 am

Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by GiulyF »

oel wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:03 am Hi,

Zolotnik shows us sharp and crisp marks which are punched to compare with your soft and blurred casted mark of M.Ovchinnikov; not punched but casted and thus a fake mark.
For more information please read (PDF file);
An analysis of silver candlesticks
from a casting point of view: originals,
copies, forgeries


http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 3y-ZJcLLHA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Oel
Dear Oel is it possible to have this PDf you mentioned at the followed link? The source is not available anymore..
I'm curious and avid to know and learn more about this discussion and topic.

Thanks!
oel
co-admin
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Re: Russian enameled goblet

Post by oel »

Hi, if you Google search: An analysis of silver candlesticks
from a casting point of view: originals,
copies, forgeries
You can download the PDF file
Or;

https://ro.ecu.edu.au/ecuworks/7228/
Peter.
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