Gorham? plate or sterling? pattern? tea set

[karin64blue]

Joesph Brady, a silver historian, kindly lent me his advice! Wow. Our local recommended antique appraiser couldn't even figure it out!! See his comments below:

Thank you for contacting us. There is no need for metallurgic testing of your tea & coffee service: It is definitely American coin silver, made by the Gorham Mfg. Co., Providence, Rhode Island, between 1865 and 1867. The 410 mark is Gorham's style number. It is lovely and rather valuable, and should be appraised. Prior to 1865 the lion would have faced left, and the G would have been in a simpler block style. Further, in 1868 Gorham, looking to market wares in England, adopted the British sterling standard -- 925 parts per thousand, as opposed to the US coin standard of 900 parts per thousand -- and introduced a date marking system.

The idea put forth that without the word "sterling" it is not valuable is quite ridiculous, since such marking is not seen on American solid silver wares prior to the 1860's. The earliest and most valuable pieces of American silver, such as the Paul Revere table spoon that brought $16,000 at Christie's in January or the New York-made punch bowl circa 1710 that fetched $ 5.9 million last year at Sotheby's, were marked only with the maker's own mark. The much-misunderstood phrase "American coin silver" actually describes all solid silver wares made in the American Colonies/United States prior to the commercial mining of silver in the U.S. in the late 1850's. It defines a period which began with the first Colonial silversmiths in the 1630's, when coins made up the majority of raw material available.

[dragonflywink]

No surprises in that response.....

~Cheryl

[silverly]

I am glad you have found someone that you can rely on. There has been discussion about your mark elsewhere that made too cautious about making a positive identification from the images. The pattern number might just as correctly have been used on a silverplate version of your coffee set.

Gorham makes the claim with the U S Patent and Trademark Office that they have been using a trademark like yours with the word sterling under it since 1853.

Just for the sake of discussion, even if it hasn't been stated, I've always thought Gorham went with sterling as a standard out of competition with Tiffany, but to be honest, I don't know which company changed first.

[dragonflywink]

I'm not able to check my references at the moment, but seem to recall Carpenter's books on Tiffany and Gorham, as well as Dr. Hood's on Tiffany flatware, have some dates pertaining to the exclusive use of sterling, and if I recall correctly, Tiffany claimed to have switched to the "English" sterling standard for all their silver production in the early 1850s, preceding Gorham in that respect, with catalog dates showing the latter still offering coin silver up to 1867 (.900 "coin" is still 2nd standard fineness in the U.S.). I've had a number of datable by mark 1850s pieces by several makers in sterling, and numerous patterns that were not introduced until the 1860s, marked as coin - but can't say that I've ever seen any reliable reference to Gorham's lion-anchor-G trademark being used on anything other than solid silver of either coin or sterling standard.

~Cheryl

[asheland]

I've seen model numbers starting with zero and actually having the "coin" mark right next to them.
I understand that the "lion anchor G" mark without sterling automatically means coin silver whether the word "coin" is present or not.

[Heritage]

I am obviously late to this discussion, but maybe I can clear some stuff up.

There was a lot of information in the posts, with some good clarifications.

The Lion Anchor G is a silver mark. For older plate Gorham would use an anchor alone.

Typically, silver will be preceded by the letter "A," though you will also see "B" and "M". Plate will be preceded by an "O." A zero in a pattern number should not be confused with letter "O." But, again, the "O" should occur with just the anchor mark.

There was a post that mentioned Martele needs to be .950 silver. That is not correct - early pieces were .925.

[dragonflywink]

Hi Heritage - welcome to the forums.

Some clarification, much provided by the late Sam Hough's Gorham research - the 'A' and 'B' prefixes on the Gorham production codes would be present on 'special orders' from the late 1870s, from 1888 in rectangles, with 'samples' codes in an oval, these marks changed to a different form in 1898. From 1898 into the early 1930s at the latest, the 'A' prefix was used on dining holloware, 'B' and 'C' used on dresserware, desk pieces, clothing accessories, etc., 'D' used on silver with glass ('S' earlier in the 1890s), 'U' on umbrellas, and 'H' on miscellaneous flatware pieces - can't say I've seen an 'M' prefix on production codes or recall seeing mention in references, though it appears occasionally as a suffix. So far as I know, the '0' prefix on silverplate is typically identified as a zero, appearing identical to any other zeros found in the production codes (though an 'O' prefix is noted on ecclesiastical silverplate), the prefix was replaced by 'YC' after WWII.

Don't see where in this thread that '.950 silver' was mentioned regarding Martelé ware (the name and eagle mark not actually used for their handmade pieces until circa 1900), but they were indeed made in .925 in 1897, .950 adopted in 1898, .9584 in 1905 (a nod to the British 'Britannia' standard).

~Cheryl

[Heritage]

Cheryl

Thanks for the stepping in. You are correct about the prefixes from Sam's work. He spent a tremendous amount of time researching and documenting those - he really was the Master of Gorham knowledge, and his passing was an unmeasurable loss.

You did a great listing of the prefix codes for items. My mentioning of the "O" is that you will see it on plate, which did change to YC as you indicated. Gorham was very careful to not start a Sample or Special Order silver pattern with a zero or O so there would be no confusion (for example, you will see Sample "1,", not Sample "01"). I am also not aware of Samples or Specials using letters that had an initial "O," with the letter codes assigned going from "N" right to "P" (kind of like the 13th floor in an elevator). The anchor alone was a good indicator along with the O code that the piece was not silver. Just to add to the prefix list, there is also a "Q" for bronze.

When I mentioned letters, I was not clear and just listing some that are found on the Gorham work. You are correct that the "M" is seen as a suffix and not a prefix. My assumption has been that it referred to hand work added to a piece from the items I have seen. I am not aware of any "documentation" that supports that, though for a number of years the makers were housed in "Room M."

I am not sure where I saw the thread that Martele was not .925, which of course initial pieces were. And, again, you are correct that the word "Martelé" did not appear on items until 1900. But aside from being on the silver, the term or indication was being inconsistently used by the company, maybe in an unofficial way, apparently as early as 1896. The term "eagle standard" was also used. Once Gorham started producing Martele Special Orders in 1897, the .950 was in place as well as the first eagle mark. I agree that the .9584 standard was "a nod to the British 'Britannia' standard," along with .950 likely brought in for the Paris exhibition so the silver would be the higher, legal standard in France.

I appreciate your post.

Larry

[Aguest]

:::: The "B" and "C" on the dresser sets & desk ware & vanity sets use the letter "B" and "C" as a suffix stamped after the numbers. :::::
:::: I have checked my collection & other examples from antique dealers just to make sure there is a 4-digit number followed by a suffix of "B" or "C" ::::

:::: I do not have access to the reference books so the reference books might be showing something different :

[dragonflywink]

The 'A' through 'D' letter codes as suffix rather than prefix were used on goods produced at the New York shop rather than the Providence factory.

~Cheryl

[Aguest]

:::: Was the "New York Factory" different from the "Union Square N.Y." hallmark that is sometimes (rarely though) seen on Gorham sterling silver? ::::

:::: These clarifications are important ::::

[dragonflywink]

For clarity, have no idea where the quoted "New York Factory" came from - certainly nothing I wrote...

Late 1870s-early 1880s Gorham pieces marked with 'UNION SQUARE, N.Y.' are believed to have been produced in the workshop of their retail store at No. 37 Union Square, they moved to Broadway & 19th in 1884.

~Cheryl