There is a set of 4 middle eastern dishes that I am trying to identify. The questions I am trying to answer are:
1) Are they silver? (if yes, what purity?)
2) What region are they from?
3) Can an approximate date be determined from the style/marks?
Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Hi Forum,
There is a set of 4 middle eastern dishes that I am trying to identify. The questions I am trying to answer are:
1) Are they silver? (if yes, what purity?)
2) What region are they from?
3) Can an approximate date be determined from the style/marks?
There is a set of 4 middle eastern dishes that I am trying to identify. The questions I am trying to answer are:
1) Are they silver? (if yes, what purity?)
2) What region are they from?
3) Can an approximate date be determined from the style/marks?
Re: Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Hi,
I think there is ``84`` standard on top in very stylized Farsi (Iranian,Persian) alphabet.Number 4 is distinctively different from Arabic,therefore the origin of items is modern Iran.
As for 84, it stands for one of official standards in Iran and indicates 84% silver alloy or 840 in millesimal units.The other standard,less common is .900.
Persian 84 related to Russian zolotniki (.875) is a myth.The standard was probably used in northern part of iran during Russian - British division of the country for a short time, but that ended 100 years ago.Later production in .840 fineness is marked as such, e.g. "Made in Iran, 84% MARTIN "
(Pay attention to percentage).
In a word,it is modern Iran,solid silver .840.
There was a discussion and examples of Iranian 84 standard;see here:
viewtopic.php?t=53318
Regards
I think there is ``84`` standard on top in very stylized Farsi (Iranian,Persian) alphabet.Number 4 is distinctively different from Arabic,therefore the origin of items is modern Iran.
As for 84, it stands for one of official standards in Iran and indicates 84% silver alloy or 840 in millesimal units.The other standard,less common is .900.
Persian 84 related to Russian zolotniki (.875) is a myth.The standard was probably used in northern part of iran during Russian - British division of the country for a short time, but that ended 100 years ago.Later production in .840 fineness is marked as such, e.g. "Made in Iran, 84% MARTIN "
(Pay attention to percentage).
In a word,it is modern Iran,solid silver .840.
There was a discussion and examples of Iranian 84 standard;see here:
viewtopic.php?t=53318
Regards
Re: Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Thank you again AG2012, I appreciate the detailed response! I'm also glad you that pointed out the difference between millesimal units and zolotniki, as I had been misinformed that Persian/Iranian silver was the later. Cheers.
Re: Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
I should note that "dishes" in thread title may have been a misnomer as I now believe these may actually be ashtrays.
Re: Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Hello
I would like to offer a different assessment of these dishes.
I see no numbers - only script, The letters are more maghrebi (north african) style than nastaliq (persian and urdu) style. The presence of fleurs de lis, crescents and stylized 5 pointed stars as prominent design motifs also suggests north africa.
On balance, I expect that these are Moroccan.
Hope that this is helpful
Damon
I would like to offer a different assessment of these dishes.
I see no numbers - only script, The letters are more maghrebi (north african) style than nastaliq (persian and urdu) style. The presence of fleurs de lis, crescents and stylized 5 pointed stars as prominent design motifs also suggests north africa.
On balance, I expect that these are Moroccan.
Hope that this is helpful
Damon
Re: Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Hi Damon, thanks for the alternate assessment.
I did a little more digging and found examples (including Moroccan) of dishes that had script for "metal work". Most of these examples were copper/brass or silver plated copper/brass, but a small number were silver. I think ultimately I will need to have these tested for silver content.
Here is the Arabic script for "work metal" which I think looks similar to the stylized script on the dishes:
I did a little more digging and found examples (including Moroccan) of dishes that had script for "metal work". Most of these examples were copper/brass or silver plated copper/brass, but a small number were silver. I think ultimately I will need to have these tested for silver content.
Here is the Arabic script for "work metal" which I think looks similar to the stylized script on the dishes:
Re: Middle Eastern Dish - Silver?
Received these dishes today.
I ran a specific gravity test and the results ranged from 8.5 to 8.7 so they are silver plated bronze. I also ran another control SG test using the same setup on a known sterling fork and the result was about 10.4.
I will be returning these for not being as described since the listing stated they were solid silver.
I ran a specific gravity test and the results ranged from 8.5 to 8.7 so they are silver plated bronze. I also ran another control SG test using the same setup on a known sterling fork and the result was about 10.4.
I will be returning these for not being as described since the listing stated they were solid silver.