Marks,European?

[gsmoggy]

Hi Members

Does anyone know The maker and country of origin ,I feel European ,Has the word Regal on the lugs that held a spring across the interior.
Maybe made for the English market.
German or Austrian?

unfortunately some damage to enamel on lid.

Regards Guido

[silvermakersmarks]

That's a Glasgow import mark. The date letter is a little indistinct but I think that the only possibility is the lower case "c" for 1925/26. The sponsor's or importer's mark is that of Scholl Ltd of London. The reference gives no further details of this comapny.

Phil

[dognose]

I find a Scholl Limited noted as manufacturing jewellers of Treasure House, Hatton Garden, London in 1925.

Trev.

[dognose]

An image of 'Treasure House' from 1908:



This would be 19-21, Hatton Garden.

Trev.

[dognose]

And here's what it looks like today:



Commissioned in 1906, completed in 1907 by David Stewart Dawson, founder of Stewart Dawson jewellers (1849-1932).

Trev.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Phil and Trev

Many thanks for the great information much appreciated,when looking for the mark Sltd I noticed some English companies (SB Blanckensee&sons ltd
so I suspected it may be an English mark . I could not find the Schol mark.
Is it possible to find the F on top of the F mark in the oval ? looks like makers mark. you are correct it is a small letter c.

Kind Regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Phil and Trev

Looks like I did not understand your answer,sorry I did not realize Scholl was the maker (sponsor) and the FF mark is import mark for Glasgow.

A bit confusing ,thinking English sterling always had the passant lion somewhere in the mark. (I guess Glasgow is Scotland,and that's why)

Regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Phil and trev

Sorry I seem to have completely confused myself. What you are saying is that it was imported from Glasgow ,and Scholl was the retailer (not maker)

Why is there no Passant lion for Glasgow? Who was the maker? was it made in Glasgow ? strange no makers name.

or was it made in Glasgow for Scholl by unknown maker.

Regards Guido.

[dognose]

The 'Double F' mark is that of the Glasgow Assay Office, see: https://www.925-1000.com/importmarks.html

The 'Sltd' mark is that of the importer/sponsor, Scholl Ltd. It was they who were responsible for the admission of the item to the Glasgow Assay Office.

The only clue as to who the maker may be is the mark (not shown) 'REGAL'

Trev.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Trev

Many thanks for your reply and comments.
I have attached images (not that clear,sorry) of the" Regal "mark on the small clasp section that would have held a spring (may have been a small card case) I feel too small for cigarettes .
I have not been able to find anything on Regal at this stage.

As for who was the maker ,it seems to me ,it has come up before ,is sponsor mark also usually also the makers mark?

If as you say Scholl had it assayed at Glasgow assay office.Does not that suggest they are the maker? was Glasgow classed as the foreign country? by the maker Scholl at that time.

I apologize for my confusion ,I felt the Glasgow import mark ,was for items made in a foreign country (Europe,or elsewhere) and again why is the Glasgow lion symbol not there? strange to me.
I am not sure where the Regal name fits in ? I doubt if they would be classed as the maker,in my opinion.

As there are no other makers marks (from European maker,or the box came to Glasgow, unmarked) we probably have to assume Scholl is the maker.

Regards Guido.

[silvermakersmarks]

As a general rule the sponsor is normally the maker. The main exception is in the case of import marks where the sponsor is normally the importer. So in this case Scholl Ltd imported your silver through Glasgow where it was assayed and stamped with the normal Glasgow import mark which from 1906 comprised the double-F, "925" and the date letter (the latter in a different punch shape to the normal Glasgow date letter. As "925" is included there is no need for the normal lion rampant or thistle marks.

There is no need to assume that Scholl was the maker as all that is required for a hallmark is a sponsor's name, not a maker's name.

Scotland was never treated as a foreign country for hallmarking purposes.

I hope this clarifies matters, at least a little....

Phil

[dognose]

And forget 'Regal' as a possible maker of the case. I believe this identifies the maker of the fitted elastic retaining straps only.

Trev.

[gsmoggy]

Hello again Phil and Trev
thanks for your comments. I agree Regal was not the maker.

one last question,are you saying it was not Made in England ,(Glasgow) ? and came into Glasgow as an unmarked box.

If not Made in England ,strange English spring clasps put on after import (and not original clasps) unless replacements later.

appreciate all your thoughts.

Regards Guido.

[silvermakersmarks]

It was certainly made abroad and un-hallmarked before it came into Scotland (Glasgow is in Scotland, but both England and Scotland are part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).

[gsmoggy]

H Phil
Many thanks for clearing that up. I always felt it was a European made box ,Austria ,Germany etc.
Pity about not having makers mark.

I now understand Why Glasgow import mark is there. Retailers mark (not maker)always confuses things.

Again pity about the damage on top,I prefer perfect boxes,I felt the guilloche work was of good quality to still have it as an example piece.

It was naturally a different price compared to a perfect one.

Thanks again for your comments. (I did know Glasgow was in Scotland,I have been there)

Regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Members

I feel I may have found another mark on my box under thumb push tab,top has .925 ,which countries put a dot in front of 925 mark.
Do members feel this is a hallmark? Is it French? is it A tree? very small hard to get good image.

Regards Guido.