Austrian mark ,Fake? or badly struck? Opinions.

[gsmoggy]

Hi Members
Interested in opinions on the marks on this box (cheroot holder),are supposed to be Austrian,are they original and badly struck? or is there something else happening (fake marks)?
Schonbrunn on lid for Schonbrunn Palace Vienna,I have been there to a lovely concert inside,the gardens are also spectacular ,the monument on the hill featured on the lid is about one kilometer from the rear of the palace.

Regards Guido

[AG2012]

Hi,
Letter A for Vienna assay office; mid 19th century.
Everything is OK here; genuine marks, hand engraved.
Regards

[gsmoggy]

Hi AG

Many thanks for your reply and answer.

I am always a bit unsure re unclear, fuzzy marks.I suppose there are lots of reasons why original marks are not always clear.
old punches ,damaged punches,not properly struck ,worn etc.
I am always a bit suspicious when marks are not clear.
I feel the makers letters may be CJ ,for Carl Junger,p469 ,Neuwirth, Wiener Silber page 132.
The J on the box looks similar ,the C looks to be slanted on box (if it is a C) .
best guess at the moment.
Junger authorization 1860,he died in 1866 (short work span)widow took over ,1868-1871, dissolution of company 1888 due to death of owner.

If this is the correct maker?

I will let you know if I purchase it. The fact we attended a concert there some years ago ,makes it an interesting box for me.
It is probably a cigar holder not a cheroot holder,as I said earlier.

Regards Guido.

[AG2012]

Cannot help with the maker; there was also Carl (Friedrich) Jacobi , active: 1851-54

[gsmoggy]

Hi Ag
I did purchase the box.
Looks like the date mark is 1835.
not maker on previous post. Not sure what first letter is on makers mark ? may be F, next letter looks like J
interested if anyone knows makers mark.

I have added better images of marks. I will look in the Neuwirth book ,to see if I can find mark.

Regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

First letter may also be a K.
Regards Guido.

[AG2012]

More likely C with a dot. The year is 1835.

[gsmoggy]

Hi Ag
Many thanks for your comments .
I cannot find mark in Neuwirth ,Wiener Silber 1781-1866.
I felt it would be there somewhere,unless I have missed it.
I have added some images from my other Neuwirth book of other similar boxes from around same period,seems these engraved tops were in vogue at that period.
Members may find them interesting. Hope the maker of my box comes up,I am happy it is a little earlier than we first thought.

not sure if these were classed as tourist pieces at the time? I would not think so ,I feel at that date only the wealthy could have afforded them.
Regards Guido.

[AG2012]

not sure if these were classed as tourist pieces at the time? 

Souvenirs were common in Biedermeier era and they cannot be compared with contemporary cheap souvenirs. Most notable examples are Biedermeier Bohemian glass spa beakers and Kothgasser hand painted images of Vienna on glass beakers that sell at $$$$$.
Only negligible percentage of population at the time has ever left his or her town for longer trip, and let alone stay in a hotel and buy silver.

Regards

[gsmoggy]

Hi Ag
I Agree ,my partner suggested it may have been a tourist piece,if it was it would have been expensive.
Toledo in Spain is know for its damascene ware, inlaid metals in steel.for the tourists.
As I discovered there is tourist ware for $10.00 machine made ,and the original method hand made with 24 karat gold very expensive ran into many thousands of dollars.

I did not buy anything ,as I thought it was strange that it was very hard to tell the difference between the hand made (expensive) and cheap items.

Famous scenes ,have been popular as you know as decorations on snuff boxes lids for many hundreds of years (silver,gold) to give the item some connection to where they were made.

eg Nathaniel Mills, Castle top snuff boxes.

Regards Guido .

[gsmoggy]

More likely C with a dot. The year is 1835.

Hi members

I feel you were correct Ag Letter C with a dot.
I feel I have found the maker of my" Schonbrunn" box. C.S for,

Christian Sander Snr ,
Authorization 1819 end of trade 1859 ,died in 1874(86 years old) entered in the guild lists from 1837-1851 (1851 no business)
In 1828 the authorized goldsmith Christian Sander was allowed to employ journeymen turners as well.

from Waltraud Neuwirth ,Weiner Silber 1781 -1866 page 140.

A similar engraved top box by Chr Sander pictured previously above in this post.
the shape of the lozeng and the dot after the C, similar engraving to there other boxes ,lead me to believe he was the maker.

although the S not very clear.

Regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

Hi Members

a rough drawing of what I feel the mark may be.

Regards Guido.

[gsmoggy]

Hello Members

I have attached an enlarged image o the C.S mark .490 (cat 24) same as image on earlier post (not super clear.) with images of box 488-491 (Cat 24)

on box dated 1833 Chr Sander ,That I feel is the mark on my box,dated 1835.

Regards Guido.