Silver item 17-18th century

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
solo
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:01 am
Location: Ukraine

Silver item 17-18th century

Postby solo » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:27 pm

I need some help on the hallmark shown.
Any help concerning origin and maker is welcome.
ImageImage
ImageImage

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 1177
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Aguest » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:09 pm

The green color and overall appearance has me thinking ::: Do you think this is made of Pewter and not Silver? ::: The hallmarks could be of a maker of Pewter objects. :::

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3328
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:39 am

In my eyes it looks a bit yellow here and there. That makes me think of silver plated brass (copper and zink).

solo
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:01 am
Location: Ukraine

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby solo » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:41 am

so is silver 100%

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3328
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:25 am

Well, in that case, how do you know it is silver? I don't recognize the shown marks to be silver control marks, at least not European. But of course I could be wrong...
Why I assumed the base metal to be brass is that brass is affected from the oxygen and "water" in the air creating copper hydroxide and copper carbonate. That is the greenish tarnish on a brass object's surface. If we assume that your object is electroplated brass, the very thin silver surface has been worn out by use and that has exposed the base metal (brass) to air and tarnish it greenish. It is the same thing that happens to copper.

BTW.
Nothing except for silver ingots are 100% silver. It is not workable material. Even ingots are only 99,99% silver. Silver is always alloyed with some other metal, usually copper to make it workable. Therefore we have official country specific control marks to guarantee that nobody adds too much e.g. copper in the silver alloy.

oel
co-admin
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby oel » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:04 am

Looking at the threaded(?) stopper with a handle onto it. I believe it could be a pewter canteen/food holder perhaps to service the need of travelers or field workers.


Peter.

Pewter is a malleable metal alloy, traditionally 85 -95% Tin, with the remainder consisting of Copper, Antimony, Bismuth and sometimes, less commonly today, Lead. Silver is also sometimes used. Copper and Antimony act as hardeners while Lead is common in the lower grades of Pewter, which have a bluish tint. It has a melting point, around 338 – 446 F ( 170 – 230 C ), depending on the exact mixture.
Pewter was first used around the beginning of the Bronze Age in the Near East. The earliest piece of Pewter found is from an Egyptian tomb from 1450 BC. Pewters containing Lead are no longer used in items such as cups, plates, or jewelry ) that will come in contact with the human body due to health concerns stemming from the Lead content. Modern Pewters are available that are completely free of Lead, although many Pewters containing Lead are still being produced for other purposes.
Applications:
Pewter is used in decorative objects, mainly collectible statuettes and figurines, game figures, aircraft and other models, (replica ) coins, pendants, and plated jewelry.

amena
contributor
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby amena » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:30 pm

Although these containers are usually made of pewter, the color makes me think it is bronze or brass.
I could be wrong, of course.
Best
Amena

Theoderich
contributor
Posts: 1654
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:54 am

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Theoderich » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:51 pm

I think it looks nice.

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 45550
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby dognose » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:13 pm

It reminds me of a 'Dabba'.

See: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=38765&p=106095

Trev.

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4437
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby AG2012 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:51 pm

Badly neglected silver exposed to various acidic fumes in air and elements tend to oxidize in unusual way.
Clean it, please.
Regards

solo
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:01 am
Location: Ukraine

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby solo » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:47 pm

This is what silver coins look like
ImageImage
what a tin object looks like
ImageImage
Checked with reagents, it is silver 100%
Please suggest the brand of the manufacturer.

silverly
moderator
Posts: 3030
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby silverly » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:39 pm

Nothing terribly useful to add, but why not clean and polish the item?

solo
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:01 am
Location: Ukraine

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby solo » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:00 am

Tere is a photo of the silver stamp,
please tell me where the item is made?
ImageImage

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3328
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:10 am

@Theoderic
Theoderich wrote:I think it looks nice.


Mind my asking, but what is "nice" in your opinion?

Theoderich
contributor
Posts: 1654
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:54 am

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Theoderich » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:15 am

Qrt.S wrote:
Mind my asking, but what is "nice" in your opinion?


I like it. It is this kind of silver I am looking for.
Ca. 1680-1700

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3328
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:18 am

@Theoderic

OK, but what makes you think it is silver? I cannot identify none of them indicating silver.

oel
co-admin
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby oel » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:37 am

Hi Solo,
Can you tell us more about its provenance? is it a family piece, or bought at auction or other, country location you obtained item, length and weight and please show us some more images of item taken apart, the stopper and handle.

Peter.

Theoderich
contributor
Posts: 1654
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:54 am

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Theoderich » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:41 am

Qrt.S wrote:
OK, but what makes you think it is silver?



Yes it is.

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3328
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:48 am

@Theoderic

??? Silver? Based on what? "Yes" is not an answer.

oel
co-admin
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Silver item 17-18th century

Postby oel » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:58 am

I also believe it could be silver., with so far unknown marks. More images and information about the item should help. Images taken in daylight.

Peter.


Return to “Other Countries”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests