Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
robert12
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Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby robert12 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:25 am

Hi,
I have this very ornate mirror 22cm x 18cm which I think may be from Portugal 19th century.
A heavy gauge and good quality with just 3 marks that I can find. Thanks robert12
Image

Image

amena
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby amena » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:44 am

I think the object is a "cartagloria" (an altar card) turned into a mirror.
If you google cartagloria you will find many similar ones.
Sadly, I can not help you on the hallmarks.
Best
Amena

robert12
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby robert12 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:33 am

You could well be right with the "cartagloria" suggestion, the mirror looks like it has a good age and a similar shape to the silver profile.
Are you of the opinion this was made in Portugal and is the "shield" a maker mark ?
The mark like a divers helmet on its side is one I have not come across before and cannot find it anywhere yet.
It seems that this mark and the crown above are from separate punches which is strange.

Thanks for the input
robert12

amena
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby amena » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:04 am

As I told you I can not say anything about the hallamarks.
I do not know if it depends on the photo, but the marks look blunt, and this seems a bit 'suspicious.....

Italiansilver
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby Italiansilver » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:24 am

I think it is not a "cartagloria" but simply a mirror...it resemble it a bit but very different for me...
Antique cartagloria are a repoussed silver sheet on a carved wood so the repousse work is deep and no with small details, becuse the silver has to cover the carved wood

Italiansilver
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby Italiansilver » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:25 am

this is too "flat"

amena
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby amena » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:52 am

Yes, looking better, I agree that it is not a cartagloria, which must have the two lateral feet more protruding of the central part.
Best
Amena

Italiansilver
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby Italiansilver » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:35 am

correct observation amena, cartagloria has to stand on the feet
and I apolgize.
My comment "cartagloria are a repoussed silver sheet on a carved wood so the repousse work is deep and no with small details, becuse the silver has to cover the carved wood" is not correct;
I was lead in error by the two type of cartagloria, the ones in wood only and the ones in silver sheet.

robert12
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby robert12 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:51 pm

I did think maybe Portugal or Paris but another possibility might of course be Hanau.
Any thoughts on this or has any member come across this set of marks before that point towards a definite country attribution.

Robert12

dognose
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby dognose » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:12 pm

Just as another route for research, I believe Portuguese marks were sometimes imitated by Brazilian silversmiths.

Just offering the above as a possibility.

Trev.

robert12
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby robert12 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:26 am

The silver tests as high grade not the usual continental .800 or .830. I hope this my help narrow the field of possible countries to look at.

robert12

dognose
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Re: Help with the marks on this ornate mirror please

Postby dognose » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:25 am



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