Unidentified mark

[katharine]

Please help me with this mark. Positive that it is 925 or 950.

[katharine]

I am not very good with posting....I sent it without writing what I know. I believe the crest mark to be that of the Vatican. I believe these spoons to be 19th century or earlier. The diamond shape reminds me of the French makers mark. I am certain that they are sterling or better.

[AG2012]

If I see well, there is uppercase C at the bottom between crossed keys; if so, it’s assay office of Frosinone after 1817.

[Francais]

I don't think your maker's mark is listed, however I can't really read it. If you can tell me what is between the F and the G I will look again.
The quality is 899/1000 not sterling.
Maurice

[katharine]

why is there the coat of arms for the Vatican. I believe it to be a J and 3 inbetween the F and G..or possibly F J & G. Thank you so very much...I think this is all very fascinating. Again....very curious as to the Vatican mark.
Was this made inside Vatican City by a Frenchman?
Yes I believe there to be a C under the Vatican mark....so very faint but there.

[katharine]

Maurice...Thank you again so much....Out of curiosity...was the silver content because of a hallmark or because of a certain time period? Is there a way for me to tell by looking at the piece or just from your years of experience.

[Francais]

The first mark is of Frosinone, as pointed out by AG2012, which is a town and region below Rome, formerly part of the Papal States, so you see the Papal mark, which was 899 at that time. I suppose most Italian silver later was 800 fine. Every period in every country had different rules. So this standard was used in this place at this time. I am not expert on Italian marks, I just lived there, there are others better so if someone will change the title to Italian mark it might be better. I do know French silver. I presume Italy started using some marks with a lozenge, because of the influence of France, but it was not a rule. The mark you describe is not in my books, but I suspect it might be that of a Filippo Grimaldi which is describe as F13G, but that may be wrong. He supposedly worked in Rome. If no one else knows for sure, I will ask a friend.

Maurice

[blakstone]

Just to clear up a few things, this particular "papal tiara & keys" mark was created 7 Jan 1815 by edict of Cardinal Bartolomo Pacca, who abolished the Napoleonic French silver standards and returned Rome to the “carlino” standard of 10 oz. 16d. (.889), with a "high" standard of 11 oz. 9 d. (.948), indicated by a "wolf" mark. The Roman law was extended to the rest of the Papal States on 25 July 1817, and the marks remained in force until 1870, when Rome was assumed into the Kingdom of Italy.

"F13G" is indeed the mark of Filippo Grimaldi (1782-1848; Master 28 Aug 1803), but it was also used after his death by his son, Gaetano Grimaldi (born 1805) who continued the shop until at least 1869. The shop was located in Rome, on via del Pellegrino, not in Frosinone, so I'm wondering if the "C" is merely a trick of the light; there was no assay office letter for Rome. "C" was the mark for the assay office in Frosinone, though, which opened in November 1824.

Hope his helps!

Ref: Anna Bulgari Calissoni, Maestri Argentieri, Gemmari e Orafi di Roma (Rome: Fratelli Palombi, 1987), pp.241-242, marks 596-597.

[katharine]

You all have been so helpful. This is my very first piece of Italian silver...I really couldn't have done it without you. I have been up half the night reading everything I can.
Never a dull moment when dealing with silver. Thank you again so very much.

[Argentum2]

Interestingly, the crest on the spoon is that of the Roman princely family of Colonna.

A branch of the family is represented in Frosinone by the Turriziani Colonna.

The mark or Bolla bearing the crossed keys of St. Peter under the Gonfalone (umbrella) is the official mark of guarantee issued by the Camera Apostolica, that part of the administration of the Papal States which had jurisdiction in all temporal matters and which, under the Camerlengo, still assumes the administration of the temporalities of the Holy See during the vacancy of the Roman See.

[Argentum2]

Sorry, the mark does not show the Gonfalone above the crossed keys. It shows the Tiara or papal crown.

The Gonfalone is used when the see is vacant.

[Argentum2]

The crest on the spoon is that of the Colonna family, Principe Assistente al Soglio Pontificio, Patrician of Rome, Prince of Palestrina, Prince and Duke of Paliano etc. etc. etc.

[dognose]

Hi Argentum2,

Many thanks for the interesting information that you've added to this topic, it's very much appreciated.

Trev.