17th century canteen?

[EmmaW]

I'd appreciate any help with these items. They came together in a shagreen case, but the knife appears to be a later addition (different style and marks). I've looked all over and can find nothing to match the marks. Help please!!!



The fork (same maker as the spoon, but the marks are much more legible)



The knife (appears to be a crowned key with a P on the left and something on the right)

[Joerg]

Dear Emma

I agree with you, the canteen looks genuine 17th century. My estimate is 1670 to 1700. Continental Europe. The same for the knife. However, to find a reference is quite difficult without a good starting point, an estimate for a Region, Country or even City. Additionally, the mark on the spoon and fork is not very clear. Could you provide some pictures of the back side of the spoon and fork? And maybe a sketch/drawing from the mark? And, do you have a guess of the region?

Kind regards

Jörg

[Theoderich]

I suspect that it's from Switzerland 1670..1700

[Joerg]

From the style it could be Switzerland or South Germany, Zug, Zürich, Nürenberg, Augsburg. But the mark on the knife does not fit. Crowns are not used in Switzerland, exept Geneva. And if it was Southern Germany Theo would have solved it long ago. Geneva does also have a key in their markins in Addition to the crown. But I could not find a match or even a similarity. I am looking forward to a sketch from the marks on the spoon and fork. They may help further.

Regards

Jörg

[Vayne]

I agree. The symbol doesn't seem to match that specific area and seems odd to me. I love the pieces though, they're incredibly beautiful. Were they passed down in the family or were did you purchase them from somewhere?

[EmmaW]

Hi everybody,

Thanks for all your input. Sorry for the delay in replying. According to an expert at one of the big auction houses the mark on the knife is that of Pierre Labrosse, a native of Rouen working in London circa 1695. The marks on the spoon and fork were unfortunately too worn for him to get anything off, but he dated them as circa 1690, and also from London.

Thank you for all your help and ideas. I really appreciate it.

Emma

[oel]

Hi,

Could anyone show the maker’s mark of Pierre Labrosse? I checked Jackson’s but could not find the mark of Pierre Labrosse. I only could find on the internet; MARK PLB, KEY BETWEEN, ATTRIBUTED TO PIERRE LABROSSE

Thanks in advance


Oel.

[Francais]

I looked at this post several times and decided not to spend my time on it. Normally I would have given it a shot, but the pictures of the marks were not good or complete.
But then it is hard to resist when the comment comes from an expert at a big auction house.
First of all according to Christie's he didn't come from Rouen, but Angers. Rouen makes no sense, first of all because the key was used as a symbol of silversmiths in Angers not Rouen. Just to be sure I checked the Normandy book, and he wasn't listed in Rouen. According to Christie's his work is very rare, and the PLB mark is not shown. I sometimes wonder why the biggest auction houses rarely show the marks, while the lowliest on line seller does. Anyway one of the few other pieces also auctioned at Christie's describes the mark as that shown in Grimwade as unidentified no. 3712, Grimwade shows another 3713 also with a key. Unfortunately both of these follow the British rule (of the time) of using the first two initials of the silversmith's last name. So they are just LA with a key in between. Grimwade says all the piece had no date letters.
I have, or had an article on the marks of Huguenot silversmiths, but since I haven't had a piece for years, I really don't know where it is. Sorry.
My presumption is that he used his French PLB mark for earlier pieces.
Again I don't have the marks plaque for Angers, the only one I know of starts too late for him. Sorry again.
if the poster wants to take better pictures of ALL marks, i will give it another try.
Maurice