Need help identifying an item & his mark

[Smokanabeach]

Here is a little box but i do not really what it is for (looks like a kind of french "vinaigrette"). It seems marks are austrian but that all i know and find.




(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

Thank you for your help!

[Smokanabeach]

Looks like nobody can help....

[dognose]

Patience is a virtue.

Trev.

[Smokanabeach]

You're right Trev! So i will be patient! ;-)

[Theoderich]

not sure about Bamberg,
but I think it is south Germany

[Smokanabeach]

I agree with Germany (may be Austria) but difficult to give a place, a period and what it is for. Judging from the pattern I would suggest end of XIX - beginning of the XXs may be earlier but... not sure!

Thanks to you ;-)

[Smokanabeach]

Up... as nobody succeed in finding origin and date!

Thanks for your precious help.

Smoka

[WarrenKundis]

Was able to enlarge the image then spin iPad around, makers mark does appear to be conjoined JAB or JAR. Do realize that in some instances that is of little value without a correct city mark. Do try to invert the image then crop/enlarge the center mark.

Hope this helps
Warren

[Francais]

I didn't see this originally as I wasn't a contributor. I am a little confused why no one tried to date it, or identify it. Obviously it looks like a vinaigrette, but clearly it is not French, nor is that the only place the form is found.They are more often found in Britain. I don't think it is south German, but north German. That is from the decoration. It is probably first half of the 19th c. It is very similar to a Dutch sponge box which is of course the same idea as a vinaigrette. Except of course it has a removable grill, which is a bit unusual. I have seen a grill like that before, but I can't remember where. Dutch boxes usually have slip off lids, where Swiss and French ones have hinged ones. I would bet on North German or the general area.
Maurice

[Smokanabeach]

Many thanks to all contributors!

@Francais: So, we agree with the kind of object it is: a 'vinaigrette' . About the origin, hallmarks are austro-hungarian (Tardy, silver hallmarks, p. 68-72). The period could be 1st half of the XIXe even if the hallmark found in the Tardy is 1867... but the hallmark is not exactly the same (13 in a rectangle here, 13 in an edge with round angle)...

Warrenkundis, I confirm JAB or JAR, and even with an eye of jeweller, I can't confirm with certitude... In my opinion, the 'B' could be the city mark and JAB or JAR the marker's mark.

Thanks again and if you think à bout something else, do note hesitate to let me know!

Best regards,

Smoka

[Francais]

I presumed it is a small box perhaps 4 cm long, in which case yes we agree sponge box/vinaigrette. As to Austria Hungary, I don't see the marks are the same. There are plenty of people here who know A/H better than I. 13 is common everywhere before .800 was used, so the mark must be exactly the same.
Maurice

[WarrenKundis]

Smoka,

Do try to post an inverted embedded additional image of the makers mark. We all know that there are countless variations with individual marks, do make it easier for your intended audience to assist you towards that end.

Best of luck
W

[Smokanabeach]

About dimensions: l: 3.2cm; L: 1.8 cm; H: 2.9 cm; w: 16gr

Please find bellow other links for pictures as asked...




... and the hallmarks of the TARDY:




SMoka

[huszas76]

Hello Smoka!
The 13 basically indicate to search in Austria-Hungary, german or polish territory (as you did already)
I think, I'm familiar about the hungarian makers and his marks, but I've never seen your mark compilation. As I experienced, most of this makers chose his marks from 2 characters (monogram) or wrote to the item his all name. But rarely we can find maker's mark with 3 characters.
When I saw your post first time, I thought, that the B is a yearletter, IAB is the maker, and 13 is the fineness. I'm still thinking this. But if it's a yearletter, I think, we have to look for a bigger city with traditional old fashion guild.
Vinaigrette in Hungary is not typify, and I think, the ornament style either.
So I think, your piece is beautiful, but not from Hungary (none the less in your link you chose 13marks from hungarian cities), maybe from some austrian or german city. But I cannot keep out the hungarian origin.
By the way I checked the polish marks that I know, and I didn't find anything.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[Smokanabeach]

Thanks Krisztian! Thanks to our comments, I finally understand that i've still a lot of work to do in order to find the origin of this little box!

Anyway, thanks to all for that progression!

Smoka

[Smokanabeach]

Just on thing: i'm still not sure about the 'B'... i really guess it could be a city letter compared to a year letter: usually years letters are included in a forme ( rectangle, square, round,...) due to the number of years the system must anticipate. On the basis of the british system we know letters' form, square form, etc... determine more than a century of silversmith work... But that is just an idea to succeed in finding origins of this box :-)