swiss spoons dated 1583

[Blacklobster]

I am looking for help on these two Swiss silver spoons dated 1583.
The spoons are Approx 11cm long.
Both have the same hallmarks on the back of the bowls as shown in the photos.

Any help would be gratefully received.

[Joerg]

Dear Blacklobster

welcome to the forum.

Why are you sure the are Swiss? I studied my references for Swiss silver and I can not find a match.
Anyway, I would place them in the (late?) 19th century. The oldest Swiss reference I fond for the use of the "13" is from around 1800.

Regards

Jörg

[Joerg]

I forgot:

The spoons are called "Hermenlöffel", Herma Spoons. Silversmith in the Region of Zurich made such spoons in the late 17 century.
They usually bear a makers mark and a city or wardein mark, not a "13"
Regards

Jörg

[Blacklobster]

Thank you for your reply,
Since I posted this post I have realized they are a Swiss style but probably not Swiss.
I had found this spoon at Christies which had thrown me in the wrong direction as they describe it as a Swiss spoon -

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I am now trying to find where they really originate from, I am thinking maybe Austro- Hungarian as they used the "13" mark during the 19th century?

[Hose_dk]

I find them nice. Could you tale picture of both marks on both spoons. I would like to see the marks together to compair. 13 with 13 and maker with maker.
i.e. see all 4 marks.

[Blacklobster]

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in my post, I hope these two photos will help....

[Blacklobster]

A couple more photos,

[Joerg]

Dear Blacklobsters

"13" was widely used in Germany, the Austrian Empire and Switzerland. I do not think they are Austrian.
In 1583 the "13" was not in use in Switzerland. It was common from around 1800 until approximately 1860 - 1880. Then it was replaced by the "800" purity mark. "Hermenlöffel" were produced in Switzerland from approximately 1650 until in the early 1700. The distintctive base of your spoons can be found around 1600 to 1700.
I think your spoons are a quality work in ancient style. In my opinion a work from around 1850 to 1880. Maybe from Germany, but also possible Switzerland. For example Bossard in Lucern was (in)famous for creating high quality articels in ancient syles. And, if wished by the customer, with ancient marks or fantasy marks.

Have you tried identifying the family crest? There are specialised websites. That could also help.

Regards

Jörg

[Blacklobster]

Dear Joerg,

Thank you so much for all you information , it has been very useful.
I will try my best to find the crest on the spoons as this will be very interesting.

[Theoderich]

Yes - pseudomarks :-)



Best Wishes
Theo

[dognose]

J. Bossard - Lucerne - 1894

Trev.

[Theoderich]

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=51630

probably Hanau pseudomarks
Gebr. Dingeldein of Hanau