Silver Cigar Box - Unknown origin/markings

[94Clusiere]

Came across this cigar box. Wooden floor that was unfortunately cracked and I am working to repair. In the mean time, it has these three hallmarks both on the outside lip of the lid and on the bottom of the frame. Any ideas?

[Qrt.S]

Here you have one "idea" :-))
The shape of the mid mark resembles former Austro-Hungarian Empire 1867-1872, fineness 900/1000....maybe, because the number 2 is on an odd place. Please note that this is only a "guess" since your picture is not the best...Kindly show bigger and sharper pictures and crop them to the marks only.

[zilverik]

Hi,

Hungary, .900, 1937-1965.

Regards,

zilverik

[Qrt.S]

Well Zilverik, I think you're on the right track. However, the shield is not a heptagon but an octagon. That explains the up side down 2. It is not the figure 2 but 3 with the old fashioned horizontal upper line. That means fineness .800. The box's origin is Hungarian as already mentioned. What the two other marks mean I have no idea except for that they are maker's marks. Let's hope somebody else does.

[Dad]

Hi.

It's right. Second mark is Hungary 1937-1966, silver 0.800 (3).
The first mark (with "30") is Israel, more probably 1960-70..
I hope it help))

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

No it doesn't even if Israel uses quite similar marks but with figures 13 or 16 or? What would this 30 mean? In addition, if we assume that it is imported from Israel to Hungary, it should carry Hungary's import mark KA (Külföldi Áru i.e imported goods) 1937-1966, which is missing. That could indicate the other way, an import from Hungary to Israel, which I actually don't believe at all considering the time period. Nonetheless, I don't think this "30" mark has anything to do with Israel, it is something else like the horse shoe is. Unfortunately my knowledge regarding Israeli marks is close to nil....but?

[Dad]

Unfortunately my knowledge regarding Israeli marks is close to nil....

))

Two examples :

[Qrt.S]

OK, fine. What is your conclusion Dad? Are you trying to tell that it is exported from Israel to Hungary or what? In that case, where is the MADE IN ISRAEL mark, fineness mark as well as the Hungarian import mark. And, do you really think it is a realistic thought that at that time a communist state behind the iron curtain would import silver objects from Israel? Alternatively that a Hungarian tourist bought it in Israel and brought it back to Hungary and had it hallmarked there???? LOL Dad LOL!

[dognose]

I'm with Dad on this one, the box is Hungarian made and at some point imported into Israel.

The first mark does appear to be from Israel, perhaps the '30' relates to identifying the sponser. The second mark is the original Hungarian mark, and the third, the horse shoe, the maker's mark. The use of symbols rather than initials is not unknown in this area of Europe. See this post made today: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25965

Trev.

[Dad]

Sorry, I have forgotten to write.
The subject is made in Hungary before the time of communist state . By next step it brought to Israel (for example - immigrant) and it is legalized by the Israeli mark. For example: before sale. Alternative - official import.

Best Reg..

[Qrt.S]

Well Trev. now Dad stated not before what you assumed him to have stated earlier that the item being Hungarian made and exported. It is of course possible but somehow I find it odd, very odd indeed. Let's take a look at history: Hungary became a communist state in 1946. Dad says that the box is exported before that to Israel. Hmmmm....very interesting. You see Israel became an independence state in 1949. Exporting second hand things to Israel from Hungary, or what has happened??? Hopefully somebody is familiar with Israeli marking and assay procedures, I'm not and something is not in place now...

[Dad]

Hi.

It's right. Second mark is Hungary 1937-1966, silver 0.800 (3).
The first mark (with "30") is Israel, more probably 1960-70..
I hope it help))

Best Reg..

Hi, Qrt.S.

I can be not clear in text, sorry. "First" (or â„– 1) it not by time, but as situated on a photo (at the left). As well "second" (â„–2) - in center.

"Lost in Translation" )))

[oel]

Hi 94 Clusier & All,

It seems to me, there is an inscription at the inside of the lid of the box. Could you please show us a photo of the inscription? Thanks.
I believe the box to be made in the Kingdom of Hungary, period 1937-1943 and belonged to a perhaps Jewish family.
Up till 1944 Jews were relatively safe in the Kingdom of Hungary. In 1940 Hungary joined the Axis of Evil (Germany & Italy). Hungary joined Germany in fighting the Soviet Union. Near the end of the 2nd World War, Hitler discovered that Hungary was negotiating with the British and Americans and occupied the Kingdom of Hungary; it is possible that a Hungarian Jewish family fled Hungary, before 1944, to Palestine. In 1944 the World knew about the deportation of Jews, Roma’s and other to the Nazi Death Camps in Europe.
The Jewish and democratic state of Israel was defined in 1948; however since 1919 British Palestine has been proclaimed as a Jewish National Home.
At a later stage the box received his Israeli assay mark. The horseshoe mark indeed could be the maker’s mark. Yes, perhaps this Horseshoe really brought good luck to the previous owners of the box.

Mazzel & Broge.

Oel