Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
theportuguese
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:08 pm

Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby theportuguese » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:12 pm

Hello, I would like to know more about this cigarette box.
I have been searching a lot, but didn't find anything similar yet.
Thanks in advance
Image

silverport
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Location: Portugal

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby silverport » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:40 pm

Hello

Welcome to the Forum.

Please do us a favour; please let’s know at least the letter(s) in the “house” like cartouche.

Reason: The images are so blurry, that I could confirm you only, that the item is maybe a cigarettes case, with a decorative lid — maybe an artist’s conglomeration of buildings in Porto? On the side front of the stair steps circulars is maybe some thing impressed too? To get knowledge there fore, it’s maybe the best for you, to use the internet Tourists information?

Thank you!

Kind regards silverport

theportuguese
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby theportuguese » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:58 pm

Olá! "Recordação de Coimbra". Isso já sabia...
My curiosity was more about the hallmarks.
As I don't find anything similar. They are only a square milimeter each.
The shape of the smaller one signals Porto.
I would like to know what the box is made of and how old it is.

Thanks

silverport
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby silverport » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:35 pm

Hello

In short:

Yours images are so blurry that details aren't visible - that's especially important for the identification of the maker's mark. If you like to collect Portuguese items, made from Silver or Gold, I hope you would by time and while understand what I like to explain.

The Assay Mark is blurry too - but thanks of some differences, it's some times possible to guess more or less exact:

It seems to me that it is the Porto 925-1,000 fineness mark from 1985 onwards.

I'm guest in this country - Coimbra I've passed only until yet.

Please buy a loupe - and let's at least know the contents of the maker's mark.

Here you could find a brief explanation on marks:

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 34&t=19420

Kind regards silverport

theportuguese
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby theportuguese » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:55 pm

Thank you very much for the help.
I changed cameras and my much cheaper one does way better makros:
Image

Hope this one helps

Best regards

theportuguese
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby theportuguese » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:48 pm

Heureka!
With your help and this page:
http://www.ourivesariaportuguesa.info/marcas1984.html
I found out that it's the bird looking right after 1983 and zooming into the picture I found the 835 digits in the small right mark.
But I couldn't find anything yet on the web about the maker's mark.
Thanks a lot !

silverport
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby silverport » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:40 pm

Now it’s much clearer: Porto Assay Office mark of 833-1,000 fineness, from 1938 onwards until 1984.

Hello

Thank you for the new image!

Yes, the image is much better now!

There is a saying: »New brooms sweep well — but the old ones know the corners«; yours old camera too!

The fineness is 833-1,000, the mark was used from 1938 on until 1984 (it’s a gull’s head in profile, above of the ciphers 833).

A similar maker’s mark, as it is on yours case, isn’t reported from 1887 on! In between I’ve looked 3 times trough all relevant registers; not only that of Porto, but of all Assay Offices of Portugal.

There is only one maker’s mark registered, which could be seen to be in details some thing similar in the contents of mark, except the cartouche. The outer frame (cartouche) of that mark is formed by an isosceles triangle.

That »triangle« mark was registered in 1932 for the Porto silversmith Alfredo José de Sousa. It isn’t mentioned, when that mark came in disuse, or was cancelled.

There is now imaginable, if Alfredo José de Sousa has hold also that mark of yours case, that that has happen in 1938 or later — for maximum until 1984? That’s indeed a long time span.

Actually more I couldn’t do for you.

»925-1000« request you very kindly, to let stay the images visible - as long as ever possible. Thank you there fore!

Kind regards silverport

silverport
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Location: Portugal

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby silverport » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 pm

Hello

Sorry, but yours conclusion is on a dead end:

Please turn yours new image clockwise and then enlarge it.

The lower part, the shadow, would become left sided.

The Porto fineness mark would become vertical.

Then you would observe that the gull’s beck is on the left side.

With other words: It’s the Porto 833 fineness mark 1938-1984.

In the internet you haven’t find the historical version, but only the new one.

But I think, this interim result is a good first step; well or not?

Kind regards silverport

theportuguese
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: Please help me to indentify these portugueses marks

Postby theportuguese » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:32 am

Thank you very much for the big help
Regards


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