Spanish chalice

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
amena
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Spanish chalice

Postby amena » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:55 am

Dear friends
I have seen this chalice that I really like, but before I think about it seriously, I would like to be sure that it is a genuine 18th century Oviedo chalice.
In the "Enciclopedia de la plata espanola y virreinal americana", under Oviedo I find a very similar, but not identical, mark. What to think? Is it an imitation or just a variant.
Image

Image
The chalice is described "in perfect condition", which is not very common in an object that is about 300 years old.
Can anyone give me his opinion?
Thanks in advance
Amena

AG2012
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Re: Spanish chalice

Postby AG2012 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:45 pm

Hi,
There is something I never liked in objects like this:
Kuppa, as well as the baluster-shaped shaft, are screwed on.


Unlike legislation in several other countries where every detachable part is marked, who can guarantee the whole chalice is original ?
(The cup is really in perfect condition, even the gilding of the rim).
If I bought it, I would always be suspicious with no peace of mind . But that`s how I feel, it`s my character.
Regards

amena
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Re: Spanish chalice

Postby amena » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:33 am

What Ag2012 says is true, on the other hand the presence of a screw is also a good clue to establish the age of an object. An ancient screw is very different from a modern one.
Image
I consulted a Spanish friend, an expert in silver.
In his opinion the piece is authentic, and the small differences in the marks are not suspicious.
However, and this has been conclusive, in his opinion the price is far too high for such an object.
Better to give up.

AG2012
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Re: Spanish chalice

Postby AG2012 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:19 am

Dear Amena,
Always be careful with screws on whatever silver items pretending to be old.
Old threading tools are easy to find (they do differ in number of threads per 1 cm, but I had no problem to find them).
I can tell that even reputable auction houses do not pay much attention to ``minor`` details as old screw threads or even missing parts repaired (added) and made from silver of different (lower) fineness.
All said, composite items are always suspicious unless proven otherwise.
Regards

amena
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Posts: 941
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Spanish chalice

Postby amena » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:50 am

Hi Ag 2012
"Old threading tools are easy to find (they do differ in number of threads per 1 cm, but I had no problem to find them)."
Thanks for information. I have learned something very useful. I thought old tools were now impossible to find. I'll be even more careful.
Best regards
Amena

Funkel
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Location: España
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Re: Spanish chalice

Postby Funkel » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:42 pm

Good afternoon, if you are interested in the book "Silverware Studies: San Eloy 2004" (you can download it at: https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/libro?codigo=5820) talk about this silversmith and on page 241 you can see one of his marks.
Greetings

Buenas tardes, si os interesa en el libro "Estudios de platería: San Eloy 2004" (podéis descargarlo en: https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/libro?codigo=5820) habla de este platero y en la página 241 se puede ver una de sus marcas.
Saludos

amena
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Posts: 941
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Spanish chalice

Postby amena » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:42 am

Good morning Funkel
Thank you for your suggestion.
Greetings
Amena
Buenos dias Funkel
Gracias por su sugerencia.
Saludos
Amena


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