Austro Hungary silver hallmark

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Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 5:01 am

Hello can somebody help me with this hallmark, Austro Hungary? Year? City? Thanks!
http://www.jpeg-optimizer.com/uploaded_images_final/IMG_20200522_153022__1590224280_37.19.108.166.jpg

dognose
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby dognose » Sat May 23, 2020 5:12 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please embed your images.

Trev.

Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 5:15 am

Thanks,
I will
Filip

Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 5:35 am

Image
(Admin photo edit)

Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 5:41 am

Image
(Admin photo edit)

dognose
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Posts: 42511
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby dognose » Sat May 23, 2020 6:04 am

Hi,

Can you add a full image of the maker's mark?

Trev.

Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 6:13 am

Image
(Admin photo edit)

huszas76
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Location: Hungary, Budapest

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby huszas76 » Sat May 23, 2020 8:46 am

Can you repeat the maker's mark? I can't read!
It is very interessting hallmark, I've never seen before, it's a very new hallmark for my.

Filip546
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 9:23 am

If I can ask the administrator to change the resolution, I do everything from the phone ... I'm sorry
Kind regards

Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 9:28 am

Image

Filip546
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:48 pm

Image

AG2012
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:19 pm

Hi,
This is obviously a rare Austria-Hungary mark;not documented in relevant literature.
I suppose Hungary proper would have been recognized by huszas76,therefore I opt for regions that once were in the neighborhood of Kingdom of Hungary (e.g.Transylvania,Wallachia).
Many silversmiths completed apprenticeship in Austria - Hungary and when they returned to their hometowns used Loth standard and even invented town marks because guilds were possible only in bigger towns with several silversmiths.
Based on images,the craftsmanship of inkwells (?) is not very sophisticated,as often seen in remote parts of the Empire or in neighboring regions.In regard of dating,I would say it is early Biedermeier,i.e.early 19th century.
Lacking the reference,I suggest to search for coat of arms,but that would be difficult having in mind hundreds of towns in the region.
Regards

Theoderich
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Theoderich » Sat May 23, 2020 7:03 pm

makersmark [?.Zimmerer]

huszas76
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Location: Hungary, Budapest

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby huszas76 » Sun May 24, 2020 4:16 am

These marks are very interesting marks.
The city mark is unknown to me, and never seen in any publication.
On the other hand, As Theo wrote, the maker's mark seems Zimmerer, with a plus character before the name.
I saw already. When I saw, it was with mark of NAgybecskerek.
In the sources, we find 3 different maker with the name of Zimmerer.
Anton Zimmerer worked in Zsombolya at 1828.
MArtin Zimmerer worked at Nagybecskerek at 1828.
F Zimmerer worked at NAgybecskerek at 1870.
If the first character in the maker's mark is an A, maybe this work is from Anton Zimmerer, and the hallmark is from Zsombolya.
MAybe the maker later moved to Nagybecskerek, that couls explain, why I find with this mark in item from Nagybecskerek.
Best regards!
Krisztián

Filip546
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sun May 24, 2020 6:21 am

Thank you very much on explanation, inkwell was found in Kikinda,about 20km near Zsombolya so probably its Anton Zimmerer.
Kind regards
Filip

AG2012
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:10 am

This is Martinius Zimmerer on my silver and goldsmith Zimmerer house today;a man by that name married an Elisabetha Frombach in 1832 in Nagybecskerek.
Town mark is distinctive and recorded in Tardy.There is confusion,though;the house in Nagybecskerek depicted here (built in 1870`) belonged to silversmith Antal Zimmerer, not to Martin, who lived much earlier.
Nevertheless, it could be Zimmerer from Zsombolya who made the inkwells because what looked as flowers in town mark,could be flames on house on fire extinguished by St Florian in rather complicated coat of arms of Zsombolya (town marks were always simplified when used as silver marks).

Regards
Image

Filip546
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sun May 24, 2020 12:19 pm

That house in Becskerek also burned down in 1807, now I read about it. After that, Antal buy it and built a two-storey house.

Filip546
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 am

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby Filip546 » Sun May 24, 2020 1:13 pm

Here is mark from second box
[url][url=https://postimg.cc/QHBbxC9f]Image[/url][/url]

huszas76
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Location: Hungary, Budapest

Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby huszas76 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:46 am

In this photo visible the name. A Zimmerer. So the maker must be Anton Zimmerer.
We left only one question here, the hallmark is from Zsombolya, or NAgybecskerek?
I think Zsombolya, but we can't be sure.
Best regards!
Krisztián

AG2012
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Re: Austro Hungary silver hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Mon May 25, 2020 6:14 am

At the time of the 1828 national census, a single goldsmith, Martinus Zimmerer, worked in Nagybecskerek. His activity can be traced back to the 1840s.
Az 1828-as országos összeírás idején egyetlen ötvös, Martinus Zimmerer dolgozott Nagybecskereken. Tevékenysége az 1840-es évekig követhető.
(GROTTE ANDRÁS: KÍSÉRLET NÉHÁNY MAGYARORSZÁGI ÖTVÖSJEGY FELOLDÁSÁRA XIV)
http://real.mtak.hu/63828/1/muvert.62.2013.1.6.pdf
Unfortunately,only drawing of the mark;interestingly the same spelling with a line over letter m to avoid writing double consonant. And the first letter is M, not A.Also,different from my MZ mark;he must have changed it in the course of time.
But town mark of Nagybecskerek was completely different from marks on inkwell.
The house definitively belonged to Antal Zimmerer;40 years later.The same family ? Was Antal Martinus`s son ?
Regards

Image


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