Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Gerox
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Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby Gerox » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:14 pm

Hello All,
There is a nice Saleron,
Image
There are 4 stamps on the base.
On one side
1. a crowned cross
2. a dolphin brand
facing
3. maybe a Fleur-de-Lys
4. a master mark
Image
Because of the dolphin brand I think it might be Dutch silver, but I'm not sure, it could also be French.
It would be great if somebody could help me with the riddle.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Gerox

oel
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby oel » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:09 pm

Hi, not Dutch but Italian; ITALIAN SILVER MARKS AND HALLMARKS GENOA (18TH AND 19TH CENTURIES)

The Cross of Saints Maurice & Lazarus for Kingdom of Sardinia: 800/1000 silver mark used 1824/1872. Dolphin of Kingdom of Sardinia used by the Genoa Assay Office to denote silver, mark used 1824/1872

See: http://www.silvercollection.it/GENOAHALLMARKS.html
For the maker's mark and other mark, we have to wait for our Italian contributors to chip in.

Peter.

Gratitude; http://www.silvercollection.it

dognose
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Location: England

Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby dognose » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:14 pm


amena
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Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby amena » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:33 am

It could be an article imported to Genoa from Perugia.
The lozenges marked in red belong to silversmiths from Perugia, Gaspare Bartolelli and Gaetano Rancini, but I have no idea of the other mark that seem intertwined letters
Image
It's not that great
Amena

Gerox
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Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby Gerox » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:40 pm

amena wrote:It could be an article imported to Genoa from Perugia.
The lozenges marked in red belong to silversmiths from Perugia, Gaspare Bartolelli and Gaetano Rancini, but I have no idea of the other mark that seem intertwined letters
Image
It's not that great
Amena

Hi amena,
Thank you for the quick response and great support.
However, the master character does not look like a central double "P", more like a T over CH or GH.
I try to clean and take better pictures of the 2 brands. I would like to contact you again.
Thank you also for the tip to the champagne cups. Possible that the hallmark represents this lion.
Best regards
Gerox

Gerox
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Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:35 pm

Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby Gerox » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:27 pm

amena wrote:It could be an article imported to Genoa from Perugia.
The lozenges marked in red belong to silversmiths from Perugia, Gaspare Bartolelli and Gaetano Rancini, but I have no idea of the other mark that seem intertwined letters
Image
It's not that great
Amena

Hi Amena,
I tried to get better pictures of the maker's mark and the unclear punch.
It would be great if you could take a look again.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

best regards
Gerox

amena
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Posts: 669
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby amena » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:50 am

Hi Gerox
I'm afraid I can not help you.
At that time (1824-1872 as Oel said) in Italy there were maker's marks with a diamond shape in the Papal States.
They consisted of four letters that had this meaning
On the left side the initial of the silversmith's name
on the right side the initial of the silversmith's surname
in the upper part the initial of the silversmith's city
in the lower part the initial of the city of the " ufficio del bollo"
As an example
Image
Carlo Gattinelli of Lugo (Ravenna)
If the letter above is a T, then the city must be Terni or Todi, but there is no known silversmith in these cities whose surname begins with H.
There is Gaspare Brunelli di Todi whose maker's mark is GTBF, or Giuseppe Parisi of Terni whose mark is GTPS.
But it is quite possible that the mark is not Italian.
Best
Amena

Gerox
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Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:35 pm

Re: Please help identify silver hallmark, maker's mark on Saleron

Postby Gerox » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:03 pm

amena wrote:Hi Gerox
I'm afraid I can not help you.
At that time (1824-1872 as Oel said) in Italy there were maker's marks with a diamond shape in the Papal States.
But it is quite possible that the mark is not Italian.
Best
Amena

Hi Amena,
Many, many thanks for your perfect answer.
Thank you also for the example of the maker's mark with a diamond shape in the Papal States (1824-1872).
One thing is certain, the Saleron was made in the 19th century with the "cross of St. Maurice and St. Lazarus" and the "dolphin" marks used in Genoa by the Kingdom of Sardinia from 1824 to 1872.
I'm not sure about the maker's mark with a diamond shape in the Papal States (1824-1872).
For example, Giorgio Busetto describes "SALT CELLARS FROM GENOA AND GENOVA SILVER HALLMARKS" with a similar embossed and chiseled square base on four floral 'paws' feet, but with a maker's mark "B.N. into a rectangle".
http://www.ascasonline.org/windowsettem52.html
I'm also uncertain because of the other unclear punch.

Let's wait, maybe there will be helpful contributions

Again thank you very much.
best regards
Gerox


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