French Claret Jug Age and Marks ID ???

[jimijaz]

This is a old family heirloom. It just sat around and looked beautiful! I would like find out about the makers mark and age and what the 62~64 means??? The Jug Stands 11.5in high and is 6in wide, tip of the spout to the outside of the handle. I think it's Baccarat Crystal.


.

[admin]

Hi,
I'm sure someone can identify the maker for you. In the meantime, the 62~64 is part of the retailer's address. I believe it says 62~64 Q D Orfevres, abbreviation for Quai d'Orfevres or Quay of the Silversmiths. I'd guess it is a Paris address and the location would have been along the Seine embankment.

Regards, Tom

(edit note) oops, make that Goldsmiths, not Silversmiths. The terms are often used interchangeably, but literally, it is the first.
.

[jimijaz]

Thanks Tom, I'll add this info to my library on this great piece of French art.

Best regards, Jim
.

[jimijaz]

I just looked up Q d Orfevres street in Paris using The National Geographic maps and found it to be Quai des Orfevres which is two blocks from Notre Dame... on the Ile de la Cite right in the middle of the Saine River, pretty nice realestate, a what.
Click on map to enlarge:

.

[dinio]

Hi,

Here are the data for the silversmith who made this jug (translation from french) :

Name: Guerchet
Variant or precision: (widow)
Surname: Clara
Initials: M.G.
Profession Jeweller
Work place: 75 Paris
Workshop Address: 62 quai des Orfèvres
Warranty number: A9962
Prefecture number: 10446
Date registered: 15 décembre 1887
Date removed: 14 juin 1900
Symbols: a stick (crosse in french) between the two letters

Here is a link to another picture of this mark: http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/marque/ivn00_00sg1198z_v.jpg

In Paris, silversmiths and goldsmiths established their workshops during the middle age (before 1000 AD) close to the town center and next to the Seine river. The wharf where they concentrated was therefore named 'Quai des Orfèvres'. Nowadays they are no more located in this place, but around the 'Place Vendôme'. Quai des Orfèvres is now famous in France because it hosts the Criminal Investigation Department for Paris and the Chief commissionner of the Paris police.
Moreover it is a very charming wharf with a lot of historical buildings and a must see view.

Hope this helps.

Dinio
.

[jimijaz]

Thanks Dinio this helps a whole bunch!! Would you know of any way to pinpoint the date? Would you know if this is Baccarat crystal or not and what does Menerva have to do with anything, I would guess that it's the 950/1000 or 95% silver??? On the underside of the base where the "Guerchet 62 ~ 64 Quai des Orfevres" mark is opposit this is another Guerchet inside a flatened diamond with rounded corners. Does this have any significance???

Thanks for you help, all this is teaching me and filling in the blanks about this very great piece of French history and art, Jim
.

[jimijaz]

Thanks Dinio this helps a whole bunch!! Would you know of any way to pinpoint the date? Would you know if this is Baccarat crystal or not and what does Menerva have to do with anything, I would guess that it's the 950/1000 or 95% silver??? On the underside of the base where the "Guerchet 62 ~ 64 Quai des Orfevres" mark is opposit this is another Guerchet inside a flatened diamond with rounded corners. Does this have any significance???

Click on picture to enlarge:
Sorry for the blur...

Thanks for you help, all this is teaching me and filling in the blanks about this very great piece of French history and art, Jim

.

[dinio]

Hi Jim,
For what concern the Minerva's head mark, I thought that you had found all the information as your picture looks like the scan of some drawing in a book. This mark has been used in France from 10 may 1838 to 9 august 1972 for guarantying the silver quality. Whith this octogonal outline and the figure 1 in front of the face, it guarantees at least 95% silver purity. In the particular mark on your jug, you should notice that there is nothing under the Minerva's chin. In your drawing the small x under the chin idenitifies the place where a distinctive symbol (called a 'différent' in french) was stamped depending on the french department where the Minerva mark was used. But for Paris, there was no such distinctive symbol.
Therefore, there is no way for me to be more precise for the datation of your piece. It may have been done anytime during the period of activity of the silversmith. The only hope to refine the datation would be to use the quasi-lozenge mark which is not a standard one. It certainly is a trade mark used by this silversmith and perhaps was used only during a short period of her activity. But this would imply to get more personal information on this silversmith and her activity and I dont know how to get this information.
For what concern the crystal, I am not an expert at all in this domain and cannot be of help for this, sorry.

Regards,

Dinio
.

[dinio]

Hi Jim,

Looking at your pîctures comments, I just realized that I made a mistake in my translation from french to english : Clara is not the silversmith surname, but her first name.
Sorry for that.

Regards,
Dinio
.