Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

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hfswan
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:52 pm

Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby hfswan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:31 pm

I need help identifying a maker's mark on a sterling silver tastevin (wine taster's cup), 3.25" diameter, with no ornamentation except the serpent shaped handle/thumb rest and the engraving "V (solid 5-point star) MAQUIGNAU (solid 5-point star) 1807 (solid 5-point star)" on the outer rim where the serpent's tail comes to a point. On the bottom are four marks: a rooster (1708-1809) French standard/title mark; the body is facing right and head is facing left and the number "1" is next to its right foot (the viewer's left); the guarantee mark is a (1708 - 1809) "middle" size head with the numeral 9 on the left and numeral 5 on the right. The maker's mark appears three times with the initials TG above a starburst nside a lozenge or diamond shape. Maybe it appears three times because none of them is complete.

Image
Image

JayT
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Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby JayT » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:31 am

Hello and welcome to the forum
I believe these marks are spurious for the following reasons:
-Concordance of the marks. You have a silver standard mark used in Paris for 950 standard silver from 1798-1809 (not 1709). You have a guarantee mark for the provinces for the same time period of a man in a circular reserve for the département of Vienne. There is no concordance between these 2 marks.
-Placement of the marks. Tastevins should be marked on the rim of the cup, close to the handle.
-Missing mark. The thumb piece should be marked with a silver standard mark.
-Fantasy maker’s mark. The maker’s mark in a lozenge-shaped reserve is too large. Being stamped 3 times is meant to give the impression of a maître abonné from the Ancien régime.

The engraving of a name and date are a personalization.

As I've written on this forum before, French tastevins are an endless source of fakery and reproductions. I'm open to any further research, but right now I think yours is a fake.

Regards.

JayT
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Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby JayT » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:34 am

Yikes! I just took another look at the silver standard mark of the standing cock in an octagonal reserve. The “1” should be on the right, not the left. Definitely a spurious mark.

AG2012
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Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby AG2012 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:59 am

Hi,
See the discussion here:
viewtopic.php?t=39991
Not the same marks,but similar problem with faked wine tasters.
Regards

lemecdutex
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:42 pm

Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby lemecdutex » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:53 pm

On the post about the 1 being on the left of the rooster, doesn't that simply mean it's non-Paris? That's what I've seen elsewhere, or is that information wrong?

--Ron

hfswan
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:52 pm

Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby hfswan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:09 pm

Thanks for your responses. Disappointed to learn the marks are fake, making the silver piece unauthenticated, but I'm curious as to why someone would have done this. It's a lovely piece otherwise. Thanks again. You were all helpful.
Heidi

blakstone
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Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby blakstone » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:14 pm

I have to say that I'm not as certain as others that this is fake. The assay office and guarantee marks look perfectly genuine to me; as noted, the "1" was indeed on the left in the provincial rooster mark of the period. The "95" in the medium guarantee mark of this period indicated the Seine-Inferieure (now Seine-Maritime) department, which had two assay offices, in Rouen and Le Havre (there may or may not be a small pellet in the mark under the "5" indicating the Le Havre office). Also - and my memory might fail me here - I think the precise marking places on pieces was not mandated until 1838.

That said, the maker's mark does not appear in Claude-Gerard Les Orfevres de la Normandie, which has a pretty comprehensive survey of early 19th century marks of the region. Still, this can't be taken as definitive as the record of a small provincial maker might well have been lost.

blakstone
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Re: Tastevin engraved 1807 with unknown maker's mark

Postby blakstone » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:26 pm

It has been pointed out to me that I have made an error; department 95 at the period was Vienne, which had one assay office in Poitiers (until a second was opened in Chatellerault 1824 to accommodate the many cutlers who worked there and whose silver-bladed fruit and dessert knives are a particular fascination of mine). Seine-Inferieure was department 86 at the time, and was not 95 until the 1809 cycle of marks. (A rather embarrassing mistake, as I have for some time been working on a comprehensive list of 19th century French assay offices, their marks and dates of operation. Mea maxima culpa.)

Again, sadly, the standard reference for the Poitou-Charentes region, Elie Pailloux's Orfevres et Poincons XVII - XVIII - XIX: Poitou, Angoumois, Aunis, Saintonge does not show this maker's mark. Being familiar with silver knives of the region, I do know that crudely-cut, unrecorded maker's punches such as this are not uncommon in the early 19th century Poitou-Charentes.


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