Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
elcid51
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Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby elcid51 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:19 pm


dognose
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby dognose » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:30 pm

Hi,

Please embed your images.

Trev.

elcid51
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Location: Italy

Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby elcid51 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:00 am

Sorry here are the pictures
Regards, Guido

[https://postimages.org/]Image
[https://postimages.org/]Image
[https://postimages.org/]Image

JayT
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby JayT » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:34 am

Hello Guido
Your spoon was made by Victoire-Joséphine Godot, wife of Jean-Joseph Rivet. Godot worked in Paris as a flatware maker (orfèvre-cuilleriste) at 380 rue St-Denis. She registered this mark G.Fe.R., standing for Godot, wife of Rivet, symbol a salt shovel (pelle à sel) on 5 July 1832, erased 6 July 1836. This is the first time I’ve seen a woman who marked as the wife - not the widow - of a living silversmith.

See Arminjon, v. I, no. 01317, p. 155.

Her husband, Jean-Joseph Rivet was the successor of Louis-François Blacet. Rivet registered his mark in 1815-16, erased 5 July, 1832, the date his wife registered her mark. It is not clear whether he retired or was somehow incapacitated when his wife took over the business. His symbol was also a salt shovel, as was that of Blacet, but oriented in the opposite direction to Godot’s symbol.

See Arminjon, v. I, no. 01885, p. 203 and no. 02339, p. 241.

Depending on the length, your spoon in the Filet (Thread) pattern could be a place spoon, rather than a serving spoon.

Hope this helps.

Regards

JayT
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby JayT » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:39 am

P.S.
Just saw the personalization - Julie Durand. With the name spelled out fully, this appears to have belonged to a boarding school student, and therefore would be an individual place spoon.

elcid51
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Location: Italy

Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby elcid51 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:05 pm

Hello JaiT,
many thanks for the complete explanation.
I thought it was a ragout spoon because it is 27 cm long and, I attach two photos with a normal spoon.
It's probably just a big spoon
Thank you again,
Guido
Image
Image

JayT
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby JayT » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:55 pm

Hello again Guido
Wow, that is one big spoon! My vote still goes to an individual place spoon because of the personalization and the size and shape of the bowl which doesn’t look like a serving spoon. Who knows?
My pleasure to help identify the maker.
Regards and best wishes for your good health during this time of pandemic
JayT

blakstone
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby blakstone » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:57 pm

Victorie-Josephine Godot died in Paris on 19 Jan 1839, age 46 (thus born ca. 1793) at 15 rue de Francs Bourgeois (then the 7th, now the 4th arrondissement). She is again listed on her death record as the wife, not the widow, of Jean-Joseph Rivet. I can find no record of his death, and it seems very likely that he was either incapacitated or absconded. I did find the record of one child of the couple, Jean Achille Rivet, born on 15 Jun 1821 at the rue St. Denis address, but again I did not find any record of the child's fate.

The Rivet/Godot business was evidently assumed by François Laslier, who registered a mark with the same symbol (a salt shovel) at the same address (380 rue St. Denis) on 17 Jul 1836, which was renewed on 11 Feb 1848 and cancelled on 4 Mar 1858. [Arminjon, v. I, no. 01159, p. 142]

JayT
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby JayT » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:17 am

@blakstone
To clarify, Godot’s first name was Victoire-Joséphine. The timing of her registration on the same day her husband Rivet’s mark was erased would suggest that this was a planned transition. Therefore Rivet was more likely incapacitated than a bounder.
Interesting to think Laslier might have been Godot’s successor. His symbol of a salt shovel and the date of his registration are good indicators. Many, many makers worked at that address on rue St-Denis, so the address is not definitive in itself. As a side note, Laslier was an excellent silversmith whose successor, Puiforcat, kept some of Laslier’s models in his catalogue.

elcid51
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby elcid51 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:29 am

Hi,
thanks for all the information you gave me.
I am quite well and I hope that all of you are well too.
Best regards,
Guido

JayT
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby JayT » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:01 pm

You’re welcome Guido. Glad to hear all is well with you.
JayT

blakstone
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Re: Please help me identify the french silversmith of the ragout spoon

Postby blakstone » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:24 pm

Sorry about the typo. Note that the 1839 Almanach général des commerçants de Paris et des départements confirms the Laslier succession, under the listings for orfévres-cuilleristes: “Laslier, succ. de Rivet, fab. de couverts, envoie en province, r. St. Denis 380, pass. Lemoine 38” That the name Rivet was still used seems to support the theory that he was indeed somehow incapacitated.


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