Beautiful cup-18th century

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dani
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:08 am

Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby dani » Tue May 05, 2020 7:20 am

Hi friends!i got this beautiful cup.Please tell me your opinion about hallmarks.Thank you very much!
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JayT
contributor
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby JayT » Tue May 05, 2020 10:24 am

Hello
I’m at a disadvantage here because I’m looking at your pictures on a mobile device, and they’re not in focus to begin with. On the base of the beaker you have a charge mark of an A in a circle, a date letter of a crowned P, and a maker’s mark. The number between the legs of the A will give you the year, as will the 2 digits under the crown on top of the P. On the exterior there is a discharge mark of a leaf in a circular reserve. These marks are all in concordance.

However, in my opinion the timbale has been repaired and modified, and the gadrooned foot is not original to the object. The foot is out of proportion to the body (too small in circumference). You can see that the maker’s mark has been cut off on the right as a consequence of the repair/replacement. You might also check if the base with the marks might have been dropped in from another timbale of later manufacture. Timbales often get quite beat up, and extensive repairs are common.

The maker’s mark is that of Pierre-Antoine Famechon who registered on 20 July 1785: a crowned fleur-de-lys, PAF, 2 grains, and a Holy Spirit as symbol. He worked in Paris on rue de la Calandre (nos. 13 and 46). In 1792 he was 32 years old, and listed in the Almanach Royal as a silversmith who was registered as a voter in the Notre-Dame district. No end date is given.

See Nocq, v. 2, p. 160-61.

At the time of the Revolution Pierre-Antoine Famechon was still a relatively young man, but is not listed in Arminjon for the period 1798-1838. However, there are 2 silversmiths by that surname who may be relatives:
- Jean-Baptiste Famechon, hollowware maker at 30 quai des Orfèvres, registered 11 March 1796 ( 21 ventôse An V) symbol a half Corinthian column with a sphere on top;
- Jean-Pierre Famechon, hollowware maker at 54 quai des Orfèvres, registered 31 July 1820, same symbol as above.

See Arminjon, v. I, no. 01600, p. 179, and no. 02073, p. 219.

Regards

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4156
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby AG2012 » Tue May 05, 2020 11:00 am

Hi,
Tulip beaker on pedestal (Timbale tulipe sur piédouche).
JayT observation is correct;
The foot (pedestal) was so badly damaged it had to be replaced with a new one, being of smaller diameter the maker`s mark was partially obliterated when soldered.
Regards

dani
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby dani » Tue May 05, 2020 11:31 am

Thank you for you quick response.
I polished the cup and looks like were no repairs to the base,i saw other cups(timbale) with such small foot base.
The cup is in a very good condition for age.
And the hallmarks looks good:the crowned P for Paris 1789 and Famechon silversimth same period.I can.t recognize the small discharge on the body and the big A looks like small charge for Paris 1780-1791.
I send some detailed pictures,the last is inside the cup,the two black spots are just tarnish.
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JayT
contributor
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby JayT » Tue May 05, 2020 12:01 pm

It is difficult to say whether this object has been repaired without handling it in person. Timbales are frequently repaired because they are heavily used items. To me, the maker’s mark that has been truncated on the right is the give-away that there has been some work done.
Enjoy your timbale!

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4156
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby AG2012 » Tue May 05, 2020 12:04 pm

The very size of the foot base may be debatable but there are clear signs of foot repair (red arrow) and maker's mark is cut almost in half because the base was soldered over it.There is no way to apply a punching tool on uneven rim of the base unless the original base was removed and the new base soldered over the mark.Besides,the traces of filing are still visible.I have done repairs like this,one must take more care to hide traces of repair, this one is too obvious.
Regards

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dani
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Beautiful cup-18th century

Postby dani » Tue May 05, 2020 12:18 pm

Thank you very much,your experience is priceless!
It.s a beautiful piece of history but seems like it.s not without repairs
Regards!


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