Commemorative Plaque -- French?

[EddieS]

I inherited this plaque, but the appraiser could not identify the silver marks (it has 2 sets). The inscription is in French, and it depicts Louis IV signing a peace treaty with the Swiss in Notre Dame in 1663. It measures 28" by 21" and weighs about 10 lbs. Any help identifying where/when/by whom it was made greatly appreciated!

[img]s1291.photobucket.com/user/springere/media/1406134722636_zpsa8bd9620[img]

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

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Trev.

[EddieS]

Thank you Trev!

Here are links

The plaque

The bottom markings

The top markings

The Inscription

[WarrenKundis]

Good day Eddie,

Great piece but the reason that no one is yet responding is that your images are too out of focus. Realize that their small but with some effort you will be able to capture photographs that are readable. Use the macro setting on your camera, indirect sunlight filtered through a drape. Possibly trying to capture one or two marks at a time to see if the lense will zero in on them more effectively.

Good luck
Warren

[EddieS]

Thank you Warren. Here are clearer pictures taken with a better camera

The Plaque -

The bottom markings -

The top markings -

The inscription -

[WarrenKundis]

Thanks Eddie it's getting there. Have been doing a little research into the composition which was based on a painting by Court painter Charles Le Brun. Found an engraving by Sabestien Le Clerc the Elder dated 1680 and a second from the 19th century. a tapestry was also done at the Gobelions factory. Please allow me to make one more suggestion.

Could you zero in on the marks and shoot them in pairs as sets. Say lower left as A, B, C, D, and upper right as E, F, G, H so that those with more experience than myself can identify them for you. I myself am only limited to online resources.


Warren

[WarrenKundis]

Treaty of Soleure 1663: Renewal of the Alliance Between the French and the Swiss. Sebastien Le Clerc, French after Le Brun, 1680.




Detail of the tapestry produced by the Gobelins from The Treaty of Soleure.

[WarrenKundis]

Let's see if we can move this a little farther. here are the marks from the lower left.



Now the marks on the upper right appear to be the same marks but in a different order.

[oel]

Hi,

Just to kick the ball, could it be pseudo marks?


Best,

Oel.

[WarrenKundis]

Oel these marks are certainly a challenge.

Eddie, what we are referring to is the fact that they do not seem to conform to known French marks of the period or later. For example see here:

http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_menu.html

or

http://www.silvercollection.it/FRENCHHALLMARKSOLD.html

These are by no means complete lists, there are other members with more extensive reference material.

Warren

[EddieS]

Thanks Warren!

Here are links to pictures of the 2 markings as close and clear as my friend's camera can do...

The bottom left marking

The top right marking

[WarrenKundis]

Here is the first set, upper right I believe enlarged and rotated. They are starting to look more like real marks but you be the judge.




W

[WarrenKundis]

second set, see what you think.

W

[WarrenKundis]

Now to me the one mark appears to be a chalice on a shield with five pellets, two on each side and one below. One of the others appears to be a shield on a shield with crown above. The third a lion or left facing animal and the fourth still makes no sense what so ever. Is it possible that either one of the first two I mentioned are city marks?

Warren

[blakstone]

These are definitely Hanau pseudo-marks, attributed to J.D. Schleissner. See Pseudo Marks On Hanau Silver under J.D. Schleissner, mark s449 for the chalice with 5 pellets. Two more of these marks are illustrated Scheffler's Goldschmiede Hessens: the lion (s450) and the crowned shield (s487). The fourth mark is not shown in Scheffler, but I've recorded it in combination with both s487 and s449 on pieces I've come across.

[WarrenKundis]

Blakstone that is excellent,

If you look at the Schleissner makers mark examples list on the link, left column third one down there are three of the four marks there. Crown, chalice and lion. The crown being s448 using Scheffler's ID number. See what you think there. Does Scheffler distinguish between makes used by the father, son, and others? Any type of possible timeline there?

Now I'm curious since it states that J.D. Schleissner & Sehne exhibited at the 1893 Chicago Columbian Exposition and in St Louis in 1904 whether this plaque may, may, have arrived during that time period. Exhibition catalogues do exist, again may be illustrated there. Also a follow up question for Eddie to his relations. Eddie there may be other marks there, import and/or export marks for example. Do keep looking if you have the chance. Yes it is a very large piece and do scour the back as well.

Blakstone any thoughts on conservation of this piece, not the sort of object you just start polishing. In leiu of other marks, I'm assuming that it's most likely 800-1000 grade silver. Would seem to make more sense for this size of piece.

And thank you sir, made my whole day.
Warren