Confused !!

[joho]

Hi all - I am confused by these marks on this French beaker, which seem to contradict each other. The beaker is about 77mm high and 75 mm in diameter. The marks appear to be as follows: on base 1: Female head facing forward with P on her right shoulder, I believe for 1793. 2: Bearded man facing right for 1st standard silver 1819 to 1838. Makers mark in Lozenge stamp (I unfortunately cannot make out the letters). On rim: 1: Head of Minerva for 1st standard silver 1838 and after. 2: Head facing right in circular punch, possibly guarantee mark for Paris 1819 and later. So it seems there are a number of different dates for this cup - somewhere between 1783 and 1973!! Would be grateful for any information. Thanks John

Apologies for the quality of the pics.

[Francais]

Hi,
The 1793 mark really doesn't mean much as it was not technically an official mark. It could theoretically be from that period, but not necessarily. The 1819-38 marks rule, primarily because you don't have the intervening marks. The Minerva mark was commonly put on pieces made earlier. I have had pieces marked with it, from the mid 18th c. and probably earlier. So, as with most post 18th c. French silver you have to make out the silversmith's mark. You should be able to make out the letters with a strong loupe, as I can almost read them in the photo. Move the piece around a little in the light. I think the letter on the left looks like a T. If there is a letter at the top, I need that first.
Just give your best shot, at reading them, or tell me what the object in the middle is, and I should be able to identify it, as Paris marks from this period are well documented.
Or of course take a better picture of the maker's mark.
Maurice

[joho]

Many thanks Maurice - I will have another look the makers mark and get back. John

[Zilver2]

Hello,
AJCLB = Jacques-Louis Berger, 2 rue du Pont de Lodi, Paris (1794-1821).
Symbol : a chalice.
Regards

[joho]

Thank you Maurice and Zilver. I will try and get a better picture of the makers mark in natural light on the weekend. I guess Jacques-Louis Berger would make the cup circa 1820. Thanks again. John

[joho]

Hi - Here is a slightly better pic of the maker's mark. I still cannot clearly see any of the letters. Thanks again for your help. John

[Francais]

Well Zilver2 was absolutely right, not that I ever doubted it. Which shows the advantage of experience, I bet Zilver2 once had a piece by this maker.
Anyway, the mark in your last picture is quite legible, although upside down.
Her is a clear image of the same mark.


It certainly makes things easier with a good photograph, nice job.
Maurice

[joho]

Ha! I see it now. Thanks Maurice. John