A different Alphonse Debain hallmark?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
muraille
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:41 pm
Location: Venice, Florida

A different Alphonse Debain hallmark?

Postby muraille » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:31 pm

ImageImageImage

The usual Debain hallmark is A woodcock D. This is fully marked Debain with what looks like 2 people in a bathtub. Is this another Debain silversmith or is this just a different Alphonse Debain hallmark? The tray is also marked with a bigorne with ants. Any comments would be appreciated.
Hotlinks to hallmarks:
http://a.imagehost.org/0473/feb3_007.jpg
http://a.imagehost.org/0673/feb3_011.jpg

2209patrick
co-admin
Posts: 3551
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:53 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln, USA

Postby 2209patrick » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:27 pm

Hello.

I think your mark is a later mark, than the A Woodcock D, from the same firm.

The scan below is from this French site:
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistr ... 4%24%2534P
Type in Debain across from patronyme.

Image

Pat.

blakstone
contributor
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:05 am

Postby blakstone » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:45 am

It’s actually an earlier mark, that of Debain’s grandfather, François-Alphonse Debain. It was registered on 15 Jan 1847, renewed on 19 Jul 1851, and cancelled on 27 May 1864. The device — “un nacelle et deux petits hommes” [“a skiff with two little men”] - was also used in the mark of his son and successor, Alphonse-Edouard Debain in his partnership with Louis-Frédéric Flamant, working as Debain & Flamant, 1864-1880. The firm was succeeded by Flamant’s heirs as Flamant & Fils, 1880-1891.

Alphonse-Edouard Debain’s son Alphonse, however, became the successor to nearby silversmith Philippe Berthier, whose mark since 1847 had been “PB” with “un bécasse” [“a woodcock”], hence its appearance in his Alphonse Debain’s mark, 1883-1911.

Hope this helps!

muraille
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:41 pm
Location: Venice, Florida

Postby muraille » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:04 am

Does it ever! Thank you so much, it's wonderful to know it's even older than I thought. I was afraid it was a copy although the bigorne was reassuring.


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