silver cup

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
silverstar777
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:24 am

silver cup

Postby silverstar777 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:57 am

Image

hello can anyone tell me what fineness is this cup?
i see minerva but i cant see number 1 up in hallmark is that 950? and can anyone tell me year too?

silverfan
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:29 pm
Location: munich

Re: silver cup

Postby silverfan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:34 pm

The shape of the Minerva mark is that of premier titre 950 purity, the deuxième titre 800 purity would have a barrel shape.
Regards silverfan

silverstar777
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:24 am

Re: silver cup

Postby silverstar777 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:13 pm

[quote="silverfan"]The shape of the Minerva mark is that of premier titre 950 purity, the deuxième titre 800 purity would have a barrel shape.
Regards silverfan[/quote
also can anyone add information about this cup?

JayT
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: silver cup

Postby JayT » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:43 pm

Hello
The Minerva head silver standard mark in an octagonal reserve for 950 silver was in use from 1838-1972.
This Tétard Frères mark was registered in 1903. No end date is given, but the company continued in business until at least 1973, and closed in 2005 after being purchased by Daum. Therefore we can say your item dates from between 1903 and 1972 when the Minerva head changed appearance - a wide range of time.
A Google search and a search on this forum will give you the history of Tétard Frères, in all its iterations over the century the company was in business.
As for other observations about this object, I’d say that it is not hand-forged, and has an applied milled band as decoration.
Regards

silverstar777
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:24 am

Re: silver cup

Postby silverstar777 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:07 pm

JayT wrote:Hello
The Minerva head silver standard mark in an octagonal reserve for 950 silver was in use from 1838-1972.
This Tétard Frères mark was registered in 1903. No end date is given, but the company continued in business until at least 1973, and closed in 2005 after being purchased by Daum. Therefore we can say your item dates from between 1903 and 1972 when the Minerva head changed appearance - a wide range of time.
A Google search and a search on this forum will give you the history of Tétard Frères, in all its iterations over the century the company was in business.
As for other observations about this object, I’d say that it is not hand-forged, and has an applied milled band as decoration.
Regards


JayT thx very much u know all about french silver :) im from georgia and here is less french antique silver i bout this as stainles steel :D we have russian 875 916 925 mostly thx again.

JayT
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: silver cup

Postby JayT » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:49 pm

My pleasure to help

silverstar777
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:24 am

Re: silver cup

Postby silverstar777 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:31 am

i wanna ask you how do you think is this minerva hallmark fake or original?

JayT
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: silver cup

Postby JayT » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:31 am

Hello
If I understand your question correctly, you want to know how to distinguish genuine from fake French silver standard marks.

This is a big question. The short answer: experience gained from looking at and handling French silver over a number of years.

Personally I do 1) a comparative analysis and 2) a contextual analysis of the object. Testing for silver content is a whole other topic.

For the first analysis, I compare the mark to other silver standard marks from the same time period, with the understanding that marks can vary in appearance depending on how they were struck, just like a human signature varies slightly each time it is written. Your goblet has a poorly struck mark, but in my opinion there are enough elements to say that it is a genuine Minerva head mark. I also look at where the mark is placed, as location on the object is prescribed in France. For a goblet, the standard mark should be near the rim.

For the second analysis, I examine the context of the object. In your case, it is a mass-produced item with no particularly outstanding style features. Common sense would indicate that it wouldn’t be worth a faker’s time. Also, there should be concordance between the silver standard mark and the maker’s mark. We know the dates of operation of the Tétard manufactory, so taken together, the maker and the standard marks concord.

Finally, silver standard marking in France is rigorously controlled. You don’t find many fake 19th and 20th C marks on mass-produced silver.

Hope this brief overview helps.

Regards

silverstar777
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:24 am

Re: silver cup

Postby silverstar777 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:54 am

JayT thank you very very much u re best :)

amena
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: silver cup

Postby amena » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:39 am

Hi JayT
may I ask you for another information?
I noticed that there are slightly different marks of Tétard Frères (more or less pot-bellied huguenote).
Image
From these small differences is it possible to narrow the time range or instead were they used indifferently between 1903 and 1972?
Thanks
Amena

silverstar777
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:24 am

Re: silver cup

Postby silverstar777 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:51 am

JayT thank you very very much u re best :) and what does this number № 0164 means ?

JayT
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: silver cup

Postby JayT » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:24 am

@silverstar777
The number is a factory production or model number, used internally by the company, and has no importance to the customer.

JayT
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Posts: 731
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: silver cup

Postby JayT » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:34 am

@amena
I’m away from my library until the new year, so can’t give you a precise response. Sorry.
Regards.

amena
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: silver cup

Postby amena » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:02 pm

Thanks for answering me. I'll wait.
Amena


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