Unusual mark

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blonde_minx
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:35 am

Unusual mark

Postby blonde_minx » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:26 am

Hi
I believe this box to be french, well hopefully it is, the two hallmarks together make me think it is but then the mark inside the lid i just cant work out at all, ive added a few of the same mark at different angles hoping it would help identify the mark.
thanks in advance
Mandy

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AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3599
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Unusual mark

Postby AG2012 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:01 am

Hi,
Yes, it is French.Minerva head for .950 and Mercury (smaller mark in an oval) used for export on French made small silver (both after 1838).The third mark could be countermark insect from bigorne (two-horned anvil)
Regards

blonde_minx
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:35 am

Re: Unusual mark

Postby blonde_minx » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:15 am

Hi

Thanks for your help, i thought it was French but didnt know the silver standard or what the other mark may have been

Kindest regards

Smokanabeach
contributor
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:35 pm
Location: France, Cannes

Re: Unusual mark

Postby Smokanabeach » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:58 pm

Hi,

Following AG2012 answer:

''In order to prevent and detect fraud of hallmarked silver articles, French authorities instituted, by Ordinance of 1st July 1818, a system of countermarks on the opposite side of the guarantee mark. These countermarks are known as "bigornes".

The term bigorne literally means two-horned anvil or two-beaked anvil and refers to the shape of the projecting ends of the anvil. Each anvil has two striking areas, one flat and one of rounded shape. The rounded horn served to mark hollowware and the flat horn was used to mark flatware.''

Regards,

Don Smoka

Aguest
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Unusual mark

Postby Aguest » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:17 pm

Is it possible that the Minerva hallmark is actually French made for Export hallmark and the other hallmarks are Ottoman Empire Tugra kinds of hallmarks? I don’t recall ever seeing bigorne marks like these before. Could the other hallmarks be associated with some other country within the Ottoman Empire?

Traintime
contributor
Posts: 1562
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Unusual mark

Postby Traintime » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:36 am

Not cast doubt on anyone's conclusions, but since the words "could be" were used it might help to note the exact position of the inner mark in relation to the outer ones. There is a bigorne thread with surviving photos of three samples that the moderators (if they feel it's necessary) can probably place here for comparison to avoid jumping back & forth through links. (No, I don't see any ferns, bushes, or christmas trees.)

Smokanabeach
contributor
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:35 pm
Location: France, Cannes

Re: Unusual mark

Postby Smokanabeach » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:04 am

My opinion is AG2012 already gives you the good answer. The bigorne is the Scarabéa. But as said by Traintime, if a doubt is still remaining, please just confim that this ''special'' mark is exactly positionned on the other side on the Minerva and the matter will be solved...


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