John Cullum - John Cullen - Limerick

[Aguest]

Is "John Cullum" in Limerick the same silversmith as "John Cullen" in Dublin? :::

I believe I have found an "I (pellet) C" tablespoon (6 inches in length- is that a teaspoon or a tablespoon?) with a very distinct "Sterling" hallmark and the drop on the spoon is a very distinctive "double drop" (like two loops of silver thread side-by-side where the bowl meets the stem) :::

I am looking into "I (pellet) G" as well :::

[Aguest]

There's a Masonic Vessel in a Limerick Museum which is attributed to John Cullen and the description of the hallmark is of an [ I (star) G] OR [I (star) C] in a rectangle and the mark is worn, but I will try to contact this museum, and I will start a new thread on this spoon as soon as I possibly can. :::

[Aguest]

"Masonic vessel, Limerick silver by IG or IC. Globular with masonic engraving

Masonic vessel, Limerick silver. Flat backed globular vessel with short neck and ribbed below rim, non opening lid surmounted by a crest at back which is perforated with three holes; spout at 45 degrees to body on either side, both opening into interior, with ribbed band around rim; front engraved with a floral cartouche at centre of which is an open compass on a set square with two towers above and one below; crest of a lower arm emerging from a cloud at right with hand holding a mason's trowel vertically; motto below "Concordia Fratrum" Marks, fairly worn, on back at centre "I (a star) C or G" in a rectangle (John Cullen or John Gloster a possibility?)"

This is in the Limerick Museum and I can find a picture of the object but the most important picture of the hallmark is nowhere to be found. :::::

[Aguest]

The hallmarks are very sharp, not sure what to think about this spoon, it could be from Limerick even though this "Sterling" stamp is very unusual with the lowercase script, maybe one of the books could help?

https://imgur.com/yKQkY5z

https://imgur.com/yKQkY5z

[Aguest]

[Aguest]

[Aguest]

[Aguest]

[Aguest]

I've noticed that many of the "G" letters in Limerick Makers' Marks are very similar in letter construction, the letter is somewhere between a "C" and a "G" as if the letter is just barely a "G" so after having this spoon in hand with a 30x loupe I am leaning more towards "I . G" rather than "I . C" so that would be John Gloster who became a freeman in 1752 and that seems to me the best match with the form of the spoon (made sometime in-between 1752-1770). ::

[Aguest]

One final note: The length of the spoon is 4.5 Inches (11.43 centimeters) which would make this spoon a demitasse spoon, even smaller than a teaspoon, which was used for stirring coffee (and possibly a baby spoon or a medicine spoon) :: This spoon shows almost no signs of wear, no wear at all to the bowl, hallmarks are in perfect condition, as if someone used it a few times to stir coffee and then put it in a drawer and left it there for 250 years. ::

[Aguest]

::::::::::::: I have just seen a "John Gough" and a "John Cherry" who were also working in the 1750s and things just got more complicated :::::::::::::

[Aguest]

I have considered the possibility that this is American, but I have looked through all the possible candidates and found no match :::

[scorpio]

As mentioned in my previous PM, A Collection of Limerick Silver states it is probable that the John Cullen, Ballsbridge, Limerick, shown as registering with Dublin in 1784 is actually John Cullum, Baal's Bridge, Limerick.

To me, neither the Sterling mark or the double drop on this spoon seem indicative of 18th century Irish silver and I think looking for obscure Limerick makers will not help. It's likely American.

Limerick makers used STERLING within a rectangular punch, sometimes STARLING, STARLIN, STERL G (G raised), STE G (G raised), STER over LING, and Ster in rectangular punches and very rarely the contracted STERLING in an oval punch. Examples of STE G (raised G) and Ster in oval punches also seen in later 18th century pieces. STERLING and STER are also found in incuse letters without a surrounding punch. The capital letters of the word have always serifs and are not block letters without serifs.

I can't recall ever seeing a Sterling mark like the one on your spoon on Limerick silver or indeed any Irish Provincial silver. Jacksons's shows the various Sterling marks used on Limerick silver on page 724-5.

[Aguest]

I completely agree with your evaluation and thank you.

However, the same that can be said of Limerick can also be said of American. Has anyone ever seen an American spoon with such a stylized "Sterling" hallmark? I have not. I really am not sure about the drop either, but I do have one other demitasse spoon with a similar drop which has a makers mark only (the handle is extremely thin, so any additional hallmarks would have been very difficult).

I guess we can say more probably American than Limerick, I'm in agreement there, but I'm not quite sure that Limerick can be completely ruled out due to lack of ever having seen a "Sterling" stamp like this before. The way the handle is constructed, with that shallow "midrib" going down the shaft, this is a characteristic I have seen on Limerick spoons. But I defer to the experts if they say this is more likely to be American.