5th Artel in St Petersburg ???

[Qrt.S]

While browsings Ivanov vol II, I noticed to my big surprice completely new information in #3181 on p 29. It states that "Mihail Aleksandrovich Panin was director of the 5th Artel of Jewelers in St Petersburg!?" There is no 5th Artel in StP. At least I have never heard of it. Does anybody know something about this artel and its manager Panin?

Please note that there is a 5th Artel in Moscow 5A 1912-1916. Its manager is not known. Has Ivanov mixed or misunderstood something here?
Any information would be appreciated.

[AG2012]

Valentin Skurlov Archives:

Архив Валентина Скурлова
ПАНИН Михаил Николаевич, 1916 ю.: завед. 5-й артелью ювелиров.

Only three artels are mentioned (first,third and eighth), then under name Panin the fifth.
Another point: it`s illogical to register 1st than 3rd and 8th omitting numbers in between (sequence breaking ).
On the other hand, if they existed where are examples of their production ?


This reference about Saint Petersburg was published in 1917. The country was already in a terrible mess.
Кемпас Матвей Ламб. «Весь Петроград за 1917 г.»

АРТЕЛЬ Первая Серебряная в СПб. Есть сведения о 1-й СПб артели серебряно — позолотного дела, Екатерингофский пр., 69, староста артели: Кемпас Матвей Ламб. («Весь Петроград за 1917 г.»), но та ли это артель, неизвестно. Клеймо: ICA.
АРТЕЛЬ Третья Ювелирная в СПб. 1915: Екатерининский канал, 48. Староста артели: ИВАНОВ Василий Николаевич. Работали на фирму Фаберже. Клеймо: 3яА
АРТЕЛЬ Восьмая Серебряная в СПб. 1915: Екатерининский канал, 41. Староста артели: МАТВЕЕВ Николай Мартынович. Артель, как свидетельствует рекламное объявление, состояла из "бывших мастеров фирмы ФАБЕРЖЕ". Клеймо: 8 CA.

http://podarok02.ru/art/66-Zolotihi_ser ... i1917.html


http://skurlov.blogspot.rs/2013/05/1849-1917.html

[Goldstein]

Hi -

I have from nearly all (Moscow - St. Petersburg) artels several authentic objects.3 artels I never have seen or could never find - maybe they exist only in the literature. Ivanov is be taken with extreme caution - only if his statement coincides with the information from other sources.Furthermore, many of his photographed brands are fakes (see cover picture).Very useful as a supplement to other good documents.

Regards
Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

The 3rd artel in Moscow is mysterious. However, the 3rd artel in St Petersburg on Ekaterinskij kanal 41 is known for being Fabergés subcontractor. Anyway the question is now about the 5th artel in St. Petersburg, which seems to be fantasy based on what is said in earlier inputs.

@AG2012
There were more than 1st, 3rd and 8th artels in St. Petersburg. Read this: http://www.silvercollection.it/dictionaryARTELS.html

[Goldstein]

Hi -

I have from nearly all (Moscow - St. Petersburg) artels several authentic objects.3 artels I never have seen or could never find - maybe they exist only in the literature.

not 3 artels but 3rd artel! A little difference!

Regards
Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

Hi -

.3 artels I never have seen or could never find
Goldstein

OK. Point taken. Mind my asking, but how do expect your sentence to be understood?

[Goldstein]

Hi -

from nearly all artels I have one or more examples - only objects from 3 artels I never have seen or could find - maybe they exist only in literature?
9th artel is the most common and very easy to find. Here some objects - not to show off - but to demonstrate how far ahead the design and the quality of the different artels was. There are much more sophisticated and brilliant objects - but in my opinion more for a exhibition than a forum suited...
Just one of my favourites as a little teaser:




















When you see and touch this objects face to face - it is easy to detect fakes!

Regards
Goldstein