Ryder, Goldsmith, London 1700-1800s

[Fiona58]

I am looking for information for my family history. I'm trying to trace my 6 x grandfather's family who are believed to be goldsmiths from London. His name was John Ryder and he was born in Devon although his family was from London. Any information would be appreciated.

[dognose]

Hi Fiona,

Welcome to the Forum.

Grimwade lists a Mary Ryder, no record of apprenticeship or freedom. Only mark entered as a smallworker on the 4th July 1769. Address: Wich Street. She also appears in the Parliamentry Report list of 1773.

It would, at this period, be unusual for a female to be in business on her own account, unless she was the wife or daughter of a deceased silversmith, so Mary is likely to have been part of a family in the trade.

As you are already aware that your family were goldsmiths, can you please share with us whatever knowledge you have already acquired.

Regards Trev.

[Fiona58]

Trev,

Thanks for your reply. I know very little about the Ryders except that John and Bridget Ryder had a daughter Magdalen in Brixham in 1812 and soon after went their separate ways. In a diary left by Magdalen she wrote:
"In 1814 my father sent a box with cloths and a letter asking my mother to send me to him in London. As he didn't send for my mother to come with me she would not send me to him. He was then living in Wolverhampton at the Woolpack Inn, Wolverhampton, England, London
"When I was married in 1833 I sent a letter to my father he was then in Birmingham, (something) hills, London
"My dear mother departed this life for Eternal Rest April 27 1945. I think my father is dead also.
"As my father's family in London were goldsmiths and jewellers I think they are some of my grandfathers family.
"This may be of some use to some of you some day. Magdalen Ryder"

Magdalen married in Plymouth and they came to Australia. The comment about her father's family was next to a picture from a London paper of a tea set I think (teapot etc) so I assume she was referring to the photo. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of this. As John Ryder seemed to get about, I wondered if he was working for the family business, selling or something. Not sure if they had salesmen then! I'm guessing John Ryder was born around 1780 so it is possible Mary is either his mother or grandmother.

I noticed in another posting that someone had been apprenticed to a James Ryder which was what prompted my post.
Grateful for any help.
Regards, Fiona

[Fiona58]

Trev
I found this information among my papers with a note that they 'could be related'. I don't know where the info comes from but it might be menaingful to you or others on the forum

RYDER, Thomas I., engraver, at Mr. Basire's, Great Queen Street, Lincoln's Inn Fields 176667; Pelton Street 1781; Titchfield Street 1792-96; Hendon, Middlesex 1799H-1802H (the same?). B. 1746; d. 1810. Livery Sta. Co. by 1781. Studied with Isaac Basire and at Royal Academy. Exhibited Free Society 1766-67. Engr. some plates in line but best known for stipple. Engr. for Boydell's Shakspeare. Many plates printed in brown, some in colours. City Poll 1781: C. Son Thomas engraver. DNB; Thieme and Becker; Graves.

RYDER, Thomas II, engraver, Titchfield Street 1792-96. S. of Thomas R., engraver q.v. Livery Sta. Co. by 1792.

cheers, Fiona

[dognose]

Hi Fiona,

Thomas Ryder and his son were both very important English engravers in the late 18th, early 19th centuries, and much information on them can be found on the internet. As to whether they ever applied their skills to the engraving of silver is unknown to me, but as many of their contempories did work with this medium, so it would be of no surprise.

As to James Ryder, the Master of George Hall, I'm afraid I know nothing. It may be well worthwhile dropping an e-mail to the librarian at Goldsmiths' Hall in London, they are very helpful there.

Regards Trev.

[Fiona58]

Thank you very much for your help - I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about this. I'll try the Goldsmith's Hall as you suggest.
Regards, Fiona