Typical Gemstones

[piette]

Hi All,
I am wondering what types of gemstones are most commonly used in Russian items -
This is because, I have recently aquired a silver cigarette case with a gem set thumb piece.
I have a great insterest in gemstones and have been studying and collecting them also for the past 8 years, since the age of 8.

The gemstone in this case, is deep green and at first I thought it was a tsavorite garnet, but then realised that tsavorite garnets had not been discovered at the time this case was made. It also cannot be a peridot as it is not doubly refractive, and cannot be an alexandrite.

I am wondering perhaps if it is a demantiod garnet as these were originally mined in the Ural mountains in Russia although they were generally lighter in colour than this one. Also I am wondering if it could be a chrome diopside - another Russian gemstone.

Does anyone have any information on gemstones that were typically used in Russian silver items?

Regards,
Piette

[Postnikov]

Hi piette -

if it is not a cigarette case made by one of the "famous" silversmiths/makers, the thumbpiece is mostly made in cabochon style in enamel (glass) in the following colours: rubyred, saphireblue, Russiangreen, bordeaux, amethystcoloured, milkywhite, black, red, turquois, brown.
If it is a real gemstone, the cabochon mostly is mounted in gold (like real saphires or rubys). Sometimes you see cut gemstones (amethyst) but than the pushpiece is rectangular. Diamonds are very seldom used on real pieces. So if you see gemstones like malachite etc, the red flag in your brain should warn you at once! This is for pushbuttons only. Other thumbpieces have different styles - mostly no gemstones but sometimes diamonds.

As always: Beware of fakes!

Regards
Postnikov

[piette]

Hi Postnikov,
Thank you for your speedy and informative response.
I now realise that what I called a Thumb piece is actually a push button as you have said. (It is also oval in shape - the gemstone is a cabochon,)
I would not be disappointed if the gemstone is glass or enamel, as it is still a very lovely case.

It is interesting to know that diamonds weren't often used - is there any particular reason for this?

Regards,
Piette

[Postnikov]

Hi piette -

here is a typicall thumbpiece with diamonds. In Russia (Imperial) diamonds have not been something special or rare - they had enough of them. It was used more for women´s jewellerys - not for cigarette cases for men!
Too feminin...



Regards
Postnikov

[Dad]

Hi piette -

here is a typicall thumbpiece with diamonds. In Russia (Imperial) diamonds have not been something special or rare - they had enough of them. It was used more for women´s jewellerys - not for cigarette cases for men!
Too feminin...



Regards
Postnikov

Hi, Postnikov.

"Ekskuzovich Ivan Vasilevich (26.1 (7.2).1882, Elizavetgrad – 6.11.1942, Leningrad), the Soviet theatrical figure. Has graduated from the institute civil engineers in Petersburg (1909). With 1918 supervised over activity of the state academic theaters of Petrograd, in 1923–1928 RSFSR operating by the state academic theaters; simultaneously managing section of state theaters Narkomprosa, art department Glavnauki. With 1928 – on organizational work." ("The Great Soviet encyclopedia")

There are some questions:
Vulgar work and an incorrect inscription. Spelling errors: "Нивирiятно" - correctly to write "невероятно". Letter cancelled by reform (1918) "i" is used.
1922-1923 it's the time of hyperinflation in the Soviet republic.

Best Reg..

[Postnikov]

Hi Dad -

thank you for the background of Ekskuzovich - the personal dates were unknown to me! The low class engraving and the wrong letter - no wonder - all top engravers and smiths were on the run! Interesting that gold coins and diamonds were allowed under the communist government!
The inside and the backside are engraved too - interesting the names of the staff and the operas etc.






Thanks again and Regards
Postnikov

[finnclouds]

It is interesting to know that diamonds weren't often used - is there any particular reason for this?

I happened on a book about Russian diamonds, The Diamond Invention, by Edward Jay Epstein when researching Faberge. (The same writer wrote Dossier: The Secret History of Armand Hammer.)

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diamond/prologue.htm

A little diamond history, by Epstein:

Up until the late nineteenth century, diamonds were a genuinely rare stone. They were found only in a few river beds in India and the jungles Brazil. The entire world production of gem diamonds amounted to only a few pounds a year.

In 1870, however, there was a radical change in this situation. Huge diamond "pipes" were discovered near the Orange River in South Africa.

These were the first diamond mines ever discovered. Now, rather than finding by chance an occasional diamond in a river, diamonds could now be scooped out of these mines by huge steam shovels. Suddenly, the market was deluged a growing flood of diamonds. The British financiers who had organized the South African mines quickly came to realize that their investment was endangered: diamonds had little intrinsic value, and their price depended almost entirely on their scarcity. They feared that when new mines developed in South Africa, diamonds would become at best only a semi-precious gem.

As it turned out, financial acumen proved the mother of invention. The major investors in the diamond mines realized that they had no alternative but to merge their interests into a single entity that would be powerful enough to control the mines' production and, in every other way that was necessary, perpetuate the scarcity and illusion of diamonds. The instrument that they created for this purpose was called De Beers Consolidated Mines, Ltd., a company incorporated in South Africa.

The first Russian diamond mine was only opened in 1955 in Siberia. I haven't found any information about diamonds found in Russia/Soviet Union before that, except for a small find in the Ural mountains in the late 19th century where the stones turned not to be of commercial quality. I therefore surmise that diamonds used by Russian silversmiths were purchased from abroad. The Orloff diamond, for instance, was bought in Amsterdam.

As an interesting side note, Epstein alleges that the Soviets discovered a way to make diamonds and sold great quantities of man-made stones as mined ones to the West in the 1960's.

[Postnikov]

Hi finncloud -

thank you for the information.

In Siberia diamonds were found at all times (permafrost - only in the short summer) - but The Russians lacked the knowhow of digging and cuttig. All the diamonds you see on Royal objects are imported from Europa (Amsterdam). The crude diamonds you see on ecclesial objects (crosses, oklads etc.) are from Siberia. In the 50´s the Communists started to search the country for mineral resources - with big success. Today Russia is No 3 next to Southafrica and Tansania - but No 1 in selling manmade fake diamonds.

Some examples with European and Russian diamonds:







Regards
Postnikov

[finnclouds]

Thanks Postnikov! Very interesting. I've seen those uncut/poorly cut stones on icons but didn't realize they were diamonds.

The impression I got from online research was that even that kinds of diamonds were seldom found in Russia -- several sources mention a 1829 alluvial find in the Ural mountains and then the narrative jumps to the 1940's exploration that led to the first Russian mine.

This is typical (from the 1902 Encyclopedia Britannica): :

In 1829 diamonds were discovered on the European side of the Ural mountains in the gold washings near the iron mines of Bissersk. Engelhardt conjectured that they were derived from a dolomite rock, but others state that it is mica slate like that of Brazil. Only about seventy were found in the first twenty years, and all of them small, the largest weighing under 8 carats. The only other European locality is at Dlaschkowitz, in Bohemia, where a single diamond was found in the sand containing pyropes, -- the one said by Murray to have been picked up in a brook in Ireland being very doubtful.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us


P.S. I misstated that the Ural find was in the late 19th century in my previous post--it was in 1829. For some reason, I am unable to edit my posts, even if I realize a mistake immediately after posting, before anyone replies.

[Postnikov]

Hi finncloud -

I think the informations about Russian gemstones especially diamonds are (have been) very thin in the western world. Who in that times had ever been in Sibiria? Even for the Imperial gouvernment Sibiria was a white spot on the landscape.

about seventy were found in the first twenty years, and all of them small, the largest weighting under 8 carats

This is total nonsense! Alone the ...under 8 carats! If they find today 8 carats, they order the champagner-heli! The native inhabitants consisting of many tribes like the Tuwinians, Burijaks, Chakasses, Jakutes, Tschuktsches and many others had only one main problem: to survive and sell their furs and the diamonds they found in summer to some traders in exchange for food, tobacco, etc. There are numerous objects in Russian museums which are crusted with poorly cut local diamonds from Sibiria and Ural. I like them very much - better than the opulent, overloaded jewellery from the Czarina.

Here 2 examples of "oldschool" diamonds:

Breastjuwellery with the portraits of the Czars Alexander II and Alexander III 8,4 cm x 5 cm


Jewels of the order of St. Andreas, Cross with brilliants 10,6 cm x 17 cm


Let´s start a new collection....

Regards
Postnikov

[finnclouds]

A collection of breastjuwellery sounds excellent to me! :-) Lovely baubles you have, if those are yours.

You are quite right, of course, about the paucity of information re 19th century Siberia. We actually had a friendly inter-family argument about diamonds/lookalike stones after we visited the Russian Orthodox Church in Helsinki a few years ago and viewed some of the icons (since stolen) there. The descriptive plaques said the jewels included diamonds but my husband pooh-poohed the notion and insisted the stones were glass or crystals etc. I let him win the argument as I couldn't find proof of diamonds found in Russia in those days. (That's when I first looked into Russian diamonds.)

[Postnikov]

Hi finnclouds -

Most of the real old icons or panagias (total clustered with "diamonds") are in real decorated with straß, glas glued to silverpaper, the "gemstones" are coloured glass. The same you see in katholic churches - the skeleton of a local saint, clad in motheaten brocat coat and clustered with glass in all colours. Your husband was right - real men can distinguish between authentic and imitation - not only with stones :-)

Here is a breast cross (panagia) from Grusinia, 17.ct, silver, real gemstones and glass "diamonds", 6,2 cm x 4 cm


Russian earrings, 1880, gold silver, diamonds - you can see the bad quality, some dull, different (yellow) colours, different sizes and cut etc. 6,4 cm x 2,2 cm - but it was the best they had!


Regards
Postnikov