Any ideas what/who this is?

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Frances144
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:33 am

Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby Frances144 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:35 pm

Has anyone got any idea what you would call this crest and who it might belong to?

I have two silver tablespoons with this decoration on.

How would I describe it?

Monster bird sat on half a coffee bean/coconut husk/boat on the sea?

Image

Image

All help hugely appreciated.

Thank you, in advance.

Frances144
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby Frances144 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:19 am

Forgive me for bumping, but how should I describe this crest?

Any ideas appreciated.

Thank you

AG2012
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Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby AG2012 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:18 am

Hi,
It`s heraldic pelican in the nest.
Take a look here for more details.
http://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000072.html
Image
Cheers

agphile
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Location: UK

Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby agphile » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:26 pm

I am not sure this is a Pelican in her Piety.That crest should show the pelican having pecked at her breast to draw blood, with the drops of blood falling to feed her young in the nest (the noble mother sacrificing herself for her young in hard times). While the heraldic pelican looks nothing like a real pelican, without young in the nest or falling drops of blood, I would be reluctant to interpret the bird on these spoons as a pelican. It looks to me as if it is intended to be something like a hawk. However, I am afraid that my limited heraldic references don't identify such a crest. I can find a number of hawk or eagle crests but none matching this one.Of course, if you can see signs that there were pelican chicks there but they have worn away.......

AG2012
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Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby AG2012 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:21 pm

Yes,I noticed there were no chicks.Something like a nest, though, and bent neck, unusual posture.
Bird Postures are here:
http://heraldry.sca.org/armory/bird-postures.html

agphile
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Location: UK

Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby agphile » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:18 pm

Image

Flicking through Fairbairn’s Crests this is the, closest I get to the posture of the bird, described as an eagle, wings expanded, preying on a cony. I don’t think what we are taking as the bird’s nest in the engraving on the spoons is actually its prey but I do think the bird’s posture is not unique to the heraldic pelican.

AG2012
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Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby AG2012 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:47 am

Yes, you are absolutely right. Preying posture, a fish in this example.
If we knew what`s the eagle preying on.
Image

agphile
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Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby agphile » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:16 pm

Just a small further comment in case it is any help in trying to identify the crest. The bird on the spoons is "belled". The little circles at the back of each leg represent the bells that are strapped to birds kept for hunting. That is, it is not a wild bird of prey so it is most likely to be described as a falcon or a hawk. I've spotted descriptions of crests where the bird is preying on a baby (!), a mallard, a mallard's wing and a hare as well as a coney (rabbit), none of which seems to match the engraving here. Maybe it is indeed simply meant to represent the bird's nest though I fantasise that the bird has just been fed a nice steak to eat.

One frustrating thing about trying to track down crests like this is that, even if you manage to identify exactly what is represented, you may find it was used by several families or that there is no record of any family using it. Only in a small minority of cases have I been able to use a crest to identify the original owner of a piece of silver with any confidence.

Frances144
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:33 am

Re: Any ideas what/who this is?

Postby Frances144 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:49 am

This is all brilliant information and thank you. I feel I can do more research now I have this knowledge.

Cheers
Frances


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