Crest and 'JD' on Unmarked Nutmeg Grater

[dognose]

A Crest with the initials 'JD' on an unmarked nutmeg grater:







Any thoughts appreciated.

Trev.

[kerangoumar]

Trev I expect it is supposed to be a lion tho to me it looks more like an Afghan hound with those flowing ears. So, a hound?/lion? dexter rampant - the engraving is not very clear. . .

[dognose]

Hi Holly,

Yes, I see what you mean. Unfortunately the item was never in my hands, it was the property of a friend who supplied the images and I think that these were best available.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Trev.

[Traintime]

Hey Trev,
Lo and behold! Got a near like mad cat on braid topmarked on what must be a match safe (to enclose one of those big boxes?). Makers mark in shields...castle/W/crown. I'd swear I see one of these marks nearly weekly on something or other. Ash pans, crumbers, etc.. Sometimes there a monogram underneath and there seems to be different makers. I think one was from the upgrade plate line of a big Canadian concern. Tourist items?

[Traintime]

Just discovered that this form of "rampant" is actually a tiger rather than a lion...Clues in tail etc.. Apparently used by people you don't want to mess with.

[agphile]

I see no reason to regard it as anything other than a demi lion rampant (crowned if my eyes do not deceive me). I haven't the strength to plough through all the entries under "D" in Fairbairn, the only reference I have on my shelves, but I would be surprised if it could be narrowed to a single family. Around 18 families with the initial D are listed for the straightforward lion rampant crowned.

[agphile]

Oops! Correction. I should have said the straightforward demi lion rampant. I should perhaps avoid posting as bed time approaches and concentration wavers.

[Traintime]

While researching these lions, came across a commercial site (heraldry maker) not listed here due to rules. Had extensive list of elements, some with multiple samples such as the leopard. Common elements that make this lion actually a leopard appear to be simplified tail, reduced mane that does not cross shoulder toward leg, and pronounced ears on top of head in varying sizes. My match safe is clearer than this sample but same elements. Enlarging Trev's photo shows no crown, two nodes where ears should be, and gadroon like engravings above head (not a crown). These little marks are often seen above the nose of the rampant cats to indicate a roar. Don't know why his are over head. My cat has more pronounce nails in the claws. Remember, what looks like a lion is also used for the leopard with the face looking out (the lion leopard or leopard lion..a well covered subject elsewhere and I'm not using the normal French spellings). Likewise, the modified lion drawing is used for the leopard. I guess they couldn't get to the city zoo in the Middle Ages. I would not be at all surprised to find these items could be purchased from a catalog during the second half of 20th century and monogrammed to order. You could even get authentic British made things in American shopping malls at stalls and stores. You might get lucky, but I wouldn't try to read too much into this object. The odds stack up against it.

[Traintime]

Sorry, Katz on the brain. Replace leopard with tiger in last entry except at the middle. I before E, except after C.

[agphile]

I suppose I should't really rise to the bait. If you are right to imply that the nutmeg grater is a relatively recent replica with what may be a fantasy crest (I'm not so sure), there is little point in debating what the crest represents. Be that as it may, I’m afraid I’m not convinced by your arguments for a tiger. When I compare the crest with actual examples of a demi lion, a demi tiger, a demi leopard and a demi Talbot (hound), all rampant, it looks more like the lion than anything else.

It does not help that the engraving is not of the highest quality. of course, and, whatever the animal, it would also be necessary to identify the device above its head in order to link the crest to a family. I can’t come up with anything better than the tips of a coronet/crown, on the basis that in a small engraving some detail may be absent, but am certainly not confident I am right.

Anyhow, I guess it is up to Trev or his friend to decide whether any of our thoughts actually add anything to what they already know or help them take matters further.

By the way, just for clarification on the side issue of confusion between lion and leopard: as a technical term in heraldry leopard meant a lion passant gardant and had nothing to do with the leopard as an animal. Thus, for example, the leopard’s head in English hallmarks is actually a lion’s head, i.e. the head alone of a lion passant gardant. This can lead to linguistic confusion as to whether we are talking about the leopard as a real animal in its own right or as a lion in a particular posture but I don’t think it means there is also confusion about how to represent the animal once it is clear which one is meant.

Here I go, posting again when it is past bedtime in this corner of the world. Forgive any resultant lack of clarity or excess of verbosity in my rambling.