Need Help with Tiffany Beekman Flatware

[ronenros]

Hi,

I've acquired a set of flatware in the Tiffany Beekman pattern. The pattern was produced between 1869 and, I believe, 1956 or 1957. First question is: does the mark on the back of the handle give any clue to age? The info on this site regarding Tiffany marking appears to apply only to holloware. Second question is: Does anyone recognize the ship logo? Is this a steamship company that used Tiffany silver? And, is there a site where I can access info on companies that did use either Tiffany silver or certain patterns? It does seem like expensive flatware to be using but I believe that some high end hotels did use Tiffany silverware.

Any help would be appreciated

Ron

[dragonflywink]

The serifed capital 'M' would indicate, regardless of whether holloware or flatware, production dating to between 1873 and 1891, during the directorship of Edward C. Moore (also the designer of this pattern). The pattern is 'Tiffany', introduced in 1869, and according to Dr. Hood's Tiffany Silver Flatware, 1845-1905, active until 1917, inactive by 1934, reintroduced, without the tiny knobs on the sides of the stem, as 'Beekman' in 1956, with the exact date of obsolescence unknown. Seems unlikely that it was used by any shipping line, hotelware was typically heavy silverplate, even if manufactured by Tiffany - the engraving looks to me more like someone's family crest (real or fantasy), rather than a logo.

~Cheryl

[ronenros]

Hi Cheryl,

Thank you so much for the thorough reply! That certainly clears things up. I guess that you are right about the crest. I did think originally that maybe the flatware was used by a shipping company, but upon further reflection, I realized that it was of too high quality for that purpose, so you have helped confirm my suspicion. I wonder how I could research the crest - I assume that in all likelihood that it would be difficult to ascertain an association with a particular family.

Thanks again for taking the time to help - it's much appreciated!

Ron

[dognose]

Hi Ron,

I'll move your post to the Family Crest section to see if we have any joy there.

Trev.

[ronenros]

Hi Trev,

I didn't even realize that there was a family crest section.

Thanks a lot!

Ron

[nobilityhouse]

This may be a long shot, but I'll try to put the clues together. The cutlery is American, but the crest is English. The coronet of nine pearls is for a viscount. The crest appears to be the stern of a ship in rough waters upon a rock. Crests as small as this usually cannot have the details that are described in the original blazon. The personage who embodies all three: a viscount, with a ship's stern crest, living in America, would be: Charles E Pellew, the 7th Viscount Exmouth. He inherited the title in 1923, after his father, the 6th viscount, had it for only one year before he died age 94. (His father never wanted the title because it conflicted with his new American social and political works. Therefore I don't think he would have used the crest and coronet.) Charles Pellew, the 7th Viscount Exmouth, lived in New York and became a noted chemist and professor at Columbia University. I will be happy to defer to more knowledgeable heraldists. Kind regards.

[ronenros]

Nobility House,

That is quite amazing! Thank you for trying to solve this mystery. I'll look a little further into Charles Pellew and see if I can come up with more info.

Thanks again, much appreciated!

Ron

[oel]

Hi,
Just to confirm.


Distinctive crest of Edward Pellew, Viscount Exmouth
For the whole story see;
http://www.myfamilysilver.com/blog/inde ... ck-aubrey/


Oel.

[ronenros]

Nobility House,

Amazingly, I came across the British blog, MyFamilySilver, and was posting just as oel posted his confirmation. My Family Silver discusses a Bateman salver that belonged to Edward Pellew, Viscount Exmouth. It is engraved with Pellew's crest, which is explained on the blog - apparently Pellew was quite the Napoleonic era naval hero and the crest is based on one of his experiences when a ship called the Dutton ran up on rocks near Plymouth, and Pellew was instrumental in evacuating the troops. The image that oel posted is from the blog - it's finer than that on my flatware, but definitely very similar. I can't believe that you actually figured this out. Brilliant!

Thank you to all for your help!

Ron

[ronenros]

Further to our discussions. I found this on Wikipedia:
"Henry Edward Pellew, 6th Viscount Exmouth (26 April 1828 — 4 February 1923) was a British peer and a naturalised United States citizen who inherited the title of Viscount Exmouth at the age of 94 from a cousin, and held the title for less than a year before his own death. Although born and educated in England, he moved to America in 1873 shortly after his second marriage and lived there for the rest of his life, carrying out charitable works". Because this flatware would date to between 1873 and 1891, would it not make sense for it to have belonged to him? Apparently, he only inherited the title in 1922, but would he have been able to use the crest prior, or would it have been applied to an older set of flatware that he owned when he inherited the title? I've looked at both the 4th and 5th Viscounts and they don't appear to have an American connection. And the 7th Viscount, Charles Pellew, would have inherited the title much after the flatware was made.

[dragonflywink]

Might keep in mind that engraving can be done at any time...

~Cheryl

[ronenros]

Thanks, Cheryl!

[kerangoumar]

further to Cheryl's post, one might add that - in North America, at least - there is no requirement to prove that you are the holder of which ever title (hahaha! pardon me, admins, I'm just thinking of a discussion over such, ongoing in our house over the last three decades) and/or coat of arms, and/or crest, you pay to have engraved. Only if you are thereby trying to defraud someone.

This should be kept firmly in the minds of all who would assume that the engraving guarantees prior ownership by a titled person. This being the 21st century, perhaps we should all start having our silver engraved "Miss So-and-So". I have no statistics but I would venture a guess, that at least a third - but probably much more - of all denominated silver is expressive of wishes, aspirations and woolly information. For this reason, provenance is very important, especially if it is a large and/or important piece.