Sugar Sifter - 1811 - HS over ES - Horse head in ramparts?

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SimonJersey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:10 pm

Sugar Sifter - 1811 - HS over ES - Horse head in ramparts?

Postby SimonJersey » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:31 pm

Hello again
Another crest to decipher, A Silver Gilt Sugar sifter from 1811, No town mark so presumed London, Makers mark HS over GS - Mary and Elizabeth Sumner (George III duty mark). The crest is very clear, showing a horses head in ramparts with some sort of crown around its neck. Its a splendid item but what does the crest say about the piece?
Any ideas?
Many thanks
Simon

Image
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dognose
Site Admin
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Location: England

Postby dognose » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:00 pm

Hi Simon,

March perhaps?

Image

Trev.
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SimonJersey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:10 pm

Postby SimonJersey » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:34 pm

Hello Trev
That certainly looks likely to be March - with the initial "M" too. What would explain the coronet around the horse's neck be - would this mean a different strain of the same family?
Thank you
Simon
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kerangoumar
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Location: Canada

Postby kerangoumar » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:40 pm

if it were marsh it would have a coronet about the neck - it may indeed be one of the many marches but which one? what people often forget - and why should they be expected to know this? - there may be fifteen marsh/march/etc families with different but stylistically/elementally related crests. q: whose images are you using?
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MCB
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Location: UK

Postby MCB » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:26 am

Hello Simon,

Mary & Elizabeth Sumner's mark was MS over ES in an oval not HS over GS which was hopefully just a misread. There is no record of the latter combination.

Mike
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SimonJersey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:10 pm

Postby SimonJersey » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:37 am

Hello all

Mike - Yes you are right, I have misread the mark - the M is slightly obscure and has been misread by me as H.

Incidentally, I have recently managed to find the pictorial crest resource on GoogleBooks that Trev and various forum members use (this being "Heraldry of Crests" by Elven 1829), from that the crest could also be from a strain of the "Mash" Family as this does bear the coronet around the Horse's neck:

Image

Regards
Simon
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