Query re Sheffield date mark variant

[kerangoumar]

I have an 1811 toast rack with the George (#2) head, lion rampant, leopard's head, maker's mark (J. Staniforth) and crowned lower case "c"- anyone able to tell me why the crown?

[dognose]

Hi,
What a muddle! There is no Duty mark with Geo.II head, a Lion Rampant would make it Scottish, a crowned "c" would indicate Sheffield but they never used a Leopards Head. I think we need a photograph for this one.
Regards Trev.

[salmoned]

This kind of jumble of marks usually means it's either not sterling and/or not made in Britain.

[paulh]

Can I just ask how the date 1811 was established? This does not tie in with George II who was long gone by that date.

Pauil

[kerangoumar]

I have been trying for some time to take a picture that would help address the marks on my toast rack but I need help ! Can someone suggest ways in which I might be able to get the hallmarks without the flash blinding everything?

"George # 2" was in reference to the George head identified on your page http://www.925-1000.com/british_marks.html
"1. 1785 (began 12/1/1784)
2. 1786 - 1821"

The lion rampant is exactly as shown on the same page that has the duty marks.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/919 ... 02.jpg?v=0

[Granmaa]

Turn the flash off and then take the picture.
Do you mean lion rampant or lion passant, the former stands up and the latter is on all fours.

Miles

[admin]

A. Passant
C. Rampant

[paulh]

Back to your original question. I think this is more than likely to be a Sheffield piece as you first suspected. There were a couple of cycles of Sheffield hallmarks in which the date letter and the assay office mark of thecrown were combined in the same shield. Which is why you have what appears to be a crowned "c".

The engraving on your toast rack looks interesting. Is is a plume of three feathers?

Paul.

[kerangoumar]

THank you for bearing with me. It sounded at first as though you thought you had a chimera in your midst.

The lion is passant - walking, not rearing up - I guess I am rusty on my heraldic terminology. As to the crest, it is out of a ducal coronet, a plume of three ostrich feathers.

So do I take it that the crowned c was for convenience? shorthand? or to vex us?

Pictures minus flash - tried that, too. The images become very lovely, almost like Vermeer, but totally useless for purposes of identification. It is truly annoying because I have some good silver marks to post - if ever I can get my picture-taking past rank amateur status.

[Granmaa]

I believe Sheffield combined the date letter with their crown to avoid putting too many marks on small and sometimes delicate objects.

Is the crest anything like this one?

Miles

[kerangoumar]

The crest is for Astley (Wilts). There is no torsade (probably not enough room) and the feather tips turn slightly inward, not out.