help please (4 hallmarks on a large silver tray)

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
syhg99
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help please (4 hallmarks on a large silver tray)

Postby syhg99 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:57 pm

If anyone could help me identify these 4 hallmarks on a large silver tray. Thank you very much.

Image

Theoderich
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Re: help please (4 hallmarks on a large silver tray)

Postby Theoderich » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:15 am


larkfield
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Postby larkfield » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:15 am

I believe the four marks shown are 1. Sponsors mark - Sydney Bellamy Harman, 2. Town mark - Lions Head Erased for London, 3. Britannia standard silver mark, 4. Date Letter for 1903.
Underneath the London mark you have part of another mark. Is this anything to do with the tray.

Theoderich
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Postby Theoderich » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:46 am

the "h" is London 1903
but the Lions Head and Britannia looks like ~1730

the mark underneath is a Part of the 4. mark - "h"

dognose
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Postby dognose » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:42 am

Hi,

Sydney Bellamy Harman's business, Harman & Co. Ltd., amalgamated with Lambert & Co. in 1916, to become Harman & Lambert.

Mention can be found here:
viewtopic.php?t=15243

Trev.

Qrt.S
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Postby Qrt.S » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:25 am

Your photo is a collage of several photos. I would like to see the tray and a picture where all four marks can be seen.
The Britannia standard was in used between 1696 and 1720. The Britannia mark replaced the lion and the lion's head erased the crowned leopard's head. The date letter h in neither this font nor shield shape is not represented during the mentioned period, it must be from another piece?

To me the lower case h resembles London 1783, 1823 and especially Chester 1758. London's 1903 has also a different shield.

dognose
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Postby dognose » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:59 am

Hi,

This is a common misconception, the Britannia Standard is still an authorised alternative standard and will be found in conjunction with date letters from its introduction in 1697 until the present day.

Trev.

larkfield
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Postby larkfield » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:04 am

Britannia standard silver has had a London Mark of Britannia and Lions Head erased (with variation) through the centuries, I believe the change to Leopards head was in 1975. What goes on in the 21st century I haven't got a clue.
1697 to 1720 was the period when Britannia was the only standard i.e there was no sterling standard. 1720 saw sterling quality standard back again as an alternative standard to Britannia.
I am happy with 1903.

Qrt.S
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Postby Qrt.S » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:19 am

Interesting, never actually thought about the fact that the Britannia standard has been used alongside the Sterling standard to the present day. Seems to be rarely used, anyway. Had to look it up, and so it is, both standards are currently in force. Sorry for my "mistake" in my previous message, "it" happens.

However, the date letter's shape of the shield still not of the same as it should be for London 1903. Take closer look at the shield's lower "line", it should have 3 "bubbles".

Theoderich
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Postby Theoderich » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:50 am

Qrt.S wrote:However, the date letter's shape of the shield still not of the same as it should be for London 1903. Take closer look at the shield's lower "line", it should have 3 "bubbles".


I can see three bubbles. It is 1903.

Qrt.S
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Postby Qrt.S » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:07 am

Theoderich wrote:
Qrt.S wrote:However, the date letter's shape of the shield still not of the same as it should be for London 1903. Take closer look at the shield's lower "line", it should have 3 "bubbles".


I can see three bubbles. It is 1903.


Yes of course there is, but there are no "bubbles" in shyg99's photo of the h, that's my point

dragonflywink
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Postby dragonflywink » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:30 am

Suspect it might be the difference in monitors, can see the three bottom lobes faintly on my laptop, quick check on a large hi-def flat panel monitor shows them quite clearly.

~Cheryl

paris
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Postby paris » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:35 am

I opened the file in Photoshop and enlarged. The 3 bubbles are there.

Qrt.S
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Postby Qrt.S » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:47 am

OK, if you "found" the missing bubbles, the case seems to be clear; 1903. Anyway, strange date mark still...what's in the upper right corner? Should it be there?

Suspicious mind of mine...

dognose
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Postby dognose » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:01 pm

Hi,

No, it should not be there, this damage appears on all the marks, it looks like someone has tried cleaning them out with a steel implement.

Trev.


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