Two makers/sponsors marks??

[silvertt]

Hi all,

I've come across this cigar holder, it has a black bakelite(?) mouthpiece. What's interesting to me, I really should get out more, is the two makers/sponsors marks. I know that in Scotland the assay master (Deacon) used to put his marks which were usually initials but I haven't come across either mark before and they are deliberately not overstruck. Can anyone shed some light past the London 1911. The 2 marks are RD in a canted rectangle and L&Co in an oval. I haven't been able to find either mark in the appropriate time period.
Thanks or any help
http://c.imagehost.org/view/0201/misc_004.jpg

[paulh]

The L&Co. mark is most likely to be Liberty & Co, who commisioned silver from a number of makers.

[silvertt]

Hi Paulh,
Thanks for the info but I'm not sure about Liberty the only mark I've seen for them is the very distinctive cojoined lozenge mark. I'm not sure they would register a different mark I certainly haven't seen one. I'm pretty sure it's a maker/sponsor mark and a retailer mark (which may well not be registered at an assay office but possibly as a trademark). You're certainly correct that Liberty did commission silversmiths, notably William Hair Haseler, to manufacture their designs.

Thanks again for your input.
Regards,
Tony

[MCB]

The "RD" mark is for Robert Victor Dumenil, silverworker or pipe mounter from 1894 until after 1928.

Sorry I can't help with the "L & Co" mark.

[silvertt]

Hi MCB,
Thanks for that. Do you happen to know what relation, if any, Robert Victor Dumenil was to Charles Henry Dumenil whose work I have come across several times?
Regards,
Tony

[MCB]

Hello Tony,
I can't find anything to specifically relate Charles Henry to Robert Victor Dumenil. Robert's business was transferred to him on the death of Frederick Dumenil (1894) who had acquired it by transfer from Etienne Dumenil (1885). Etienne founded the business in 1874. That the business was transferred twice without payment suggests a close family relationship between the three.
Charles Henry founded his business in 1879; on the face of it he would be Etienne's contemporary.
All of the Dumenil business addresses identified by John Culme in his Directory of Gold & Silversmiths 1838-1914 were in Soho.
Maybe a trip to the Records Office might establish any connection between Charles and Robert? Anyhow it's a day out!
Regards,
Mike

[Neverbend]

Sorry to be so late to this party but I believe that the L&Co. refers to Loewe & Co. who were English pipe makers from the middle of the nineteenth century through the later 20th century.