JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

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mk209
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JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by mk209 »

This one has me stumped, it’s not hard given the small library of books I have but still nothing found online either.
It’s a toddy ladle with a shell top. Can anybody shed any light on this?

Image

Image

Matt.
Traintime
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Traintime »

Wild guess. Mark 4 is supposed to imply worn three-tower castle mark for Edinburg. But the cartouche does not look worn as is therefore not right. So, pseudo? But why? A Scottish emigre? A tax dodging retailer in Aberdeen? You got me!
Traintime
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Traintime »

If the readable marks were in fact true Edinburgh assay, then 1799 would seem to be the date. So who trained George Fenwick (the father) before he began working in 1800?
Aguest
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Aguest »

The second letter is not an "F" ::::

The second letter is an "E". ::::::

The maker "JE" of Aberdeen Scotland is James Erskine. :::

I think it's James Erskine, although I have not found this specific set of hallmarks, I have found other hallmarks which point towards this direction. ::
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Aguest »

"Maker’s mark only ‘IE’ for James Erskine, Aberdeen c1800. This is a known damaged punch of Erskine’s, with the bottom of the E missing."

Found the above description from a wine ladle attributed to James Erskine
Traintime
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Traintime »

Here Trev. mentions that James Erskine Aberdeen did send some work to Edinburgh for assay: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=38410&p=104595&hil ... ne#p104595
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Traintime »

More by Trev.-some samples of James Erskine work and marks...including an intact "JE" noted as "E" (second of three samples):
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=31210&p=169062&hil ... ne#p169062
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Traintime »

No photos left, but another mention of "broken" stamp with alleged attribution to James Erskine: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=50300&p=155010&hil ... ne#p155010
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by Aguest »

The fantastic Erskine article says that Erskine paid "lip service" to the official assay masters, so a small percentage of his pieces would bear official hallmarks, but the vast majority were not assayed and were stamped with pseudo-hallmarks, at least this is how I understand the situation ::::::

Has this particular set of James Erskine hallmarks ever been recorded?
mk209
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Re: JF, thistle, T and ?.......Toddy ladle

Post by mk209 »

Thanks guys, I have studied this more closely with a 40x magnifying glass snd yes there is a shadow of the bottom part of the E so it does read ‘JE’ not ‘JF’.

James Erskine it seems to be but not seen this set of marks before. A rather naughty set of marks designed to deceive it seems!

Matt.
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