Cape Spoon?

[dognose]

Hi,

Has anyone any thoughts on this spoon?

Just over 5" (13cm) in length, of a good gauge and handmade.







The maker's mark is perhaps the most curious, if one looks closely it will be seen that the same punch that was used for the bottom 'date' mark has been struck twice to form the top maker's mark, the right hand one being struck first to create 'IL'

The other marks are a reversed lion passant and a crude pseudo duty mark.

I'm wondering about the possibility of Cape origin. Any comments greatly appreciated.

Trev.
.

[agphile]

The marks are not listed in Welz's "Cape Silver". There is an IL on its own or with a bunch of grapes attributed to Jan Lotter who is recorded 1813 -17 in Keerom St. However, he would seem to have had proper punches.
.

[dognose]

Hi David,

Many thanks for checking your references. I'm not sure if it's 'IL', 'II' or 'LI', the more I look, the more uncertain I am.

Regards Trev.
.

[agphile]

Yes, I agree there is room for uncertainty about the initials. I think the Cape pseudos that imitate British marks were mainly, though not exclusively, used by silversmiths of British origin and were normally less crude than the ones here. There was a Joseph Ince, noted from 1823 till his death in 1828, for whom no mark is recorded. However, I guess I am suggesting that, unless somebody recognises the marks, the hunt may need to spread furher afield than the Cape. So, nothing really helpful from me, I fear.

Regards, David
.

[rat-tail]

Hi guys - Interesting mystery - don't know if this helps any, but I am sure I have seen this dodgy "duty mark" on a piece of silver locally, can't remember what exactly, probably a spoon, at one of the antiques markets or fairs. If i remember correctly the dealer was trying to flog it as a london piece. Knew enough then to realise it was a psuedo mark, but not confident enough then to buy it - pity. (well, we all have to start somewhere)

Remember comenting on the strange cleft shape V at the bottom or the head and and extra appendage on the head that makes the monarch look like he's wearing a basotho head dress. The strange back to front - or is it inside out - rendition of a cat like lion also looks familiar. But don't recall the letters. So I wouldn't write off an unknown Cape maker as a possibility. Certainly the punches were nearing the end of their working lives when these were struck. Sorry I can't cast any real light. Regards Frank.

PS could the reapeated letter punch not be used to create an unside down T T
.

[dognose]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your imput. It's leaves the door open on a Cape attribution.

I note there was a Thomas Lock Townsend working in the Cape around 1822. See: viewtopic.php?t=15236 But I've never seen details of his mark or know if it was recorded by Welz or anyone else.

Regards Trev.
.

[agphile]

Hi

Welz attributes a number of mark combinations to Thomas Townsend. All have a clear "TT" punch, or"TT over JT" for the partnership of Thomas and John Townsend. In one case the TT is struck either side of a funny looking "duty head" that has similarites to that on the spoon in question but is not identical to it. Generally, however, the punches for his pseudo marks as well as the maker's mark seem more professionaly made so I would be doubtful about seeing him as a candidate.

David
.

[dognose]

Hi David,

Thanks for checking that out. The search continues.

Regards Trev.
.