Cork silver box

[scorpio]

This is a rare Cork silver oval-shaped box with tight-fitting lift-off lid. The box measures 65 cm (2.5 in.) x 45 cm (1.75 in.) x 25cm (1 in.) and is obviously designed to be carried in the pocket. This seems a bit smaller than one would expect for a tobacco box although it is a possibility. If it was hinged, I'd immediately say 'snuff box', which is another possibility although I've been informed before that lift-off lids were not ideal for powdery substances like snuff. Can anybody offer suggestions as to what it was used for, tobacco, snuff or other use?

Two maker's marks are stamped inside the lid and another two inside the box. There is no STERLING mark, seemingly quite usual for these small boxes. The seller suggested it was circa 1800 and by James Heyland. Now James Heyland was a Cork Toyman operating from 39 North Main Street, Cork during the years 1784 to 1812 (per Bennett) so small boxes would be within the remit of a small wares maker such as he. He is listed as a Toyman in Lucas's Cork Directory 1787. However, to me, the maker's mark looks more like that of John Hillery (or John Humphreys). Both Heyland and Hillery/Humphreys apparently used I•H but with Heyland's mark (shown in Bennett's Collecting Irish Silver), the pellet is larger and the initials quite close together whereas with Hillery's/Humphrey's mark, the pellet was smaller and the initials further apart as is the case with those on the box. This would date the box to before 1787. Although I note Bennett says John Hillery died in 1780, he is also listed in Lucas's Cork Directory 1787; John Humphries is not.









Bennett's marks:

[scorpio]

Lost some decimal points in the measurements quoted above! They should of course read 6.5 cm x 4.5 cm x 2.5 cm.

[dognose]

Hi Scorpio,

I'm not sure if the habit spread to Ireland, but I believe the carrying and eating of peppermints by the well-to-do was popular on the continent at this time and perhaps may be the original intended use of the box. Presumably their use was to counter-attack the lack of oral hygiene.

Trev.

[scorpio]

An interesting thought Trev which I've been researching but unfortunately I can't trace any reference to this habit ever reaching Ireland.

Gordon

[Traintime]

The foot on your I (J) appears more fat like mark 40, but the pellet is found on mark 39. Also, the fat left foot on your H is opposite that as in mark 40 where it is the right foot. Transitional stamp perhaps. Suppose the guy who was in business the longest would have gone through more punches over time. In an era where metal money went further and paper wasn't common, fancy coin purse? Never know what might bounce out of your pocket when riding a horse or wading through crowds with pickpockets.

[scorpio]

I'm sure both John Hillery and James Heyland went through a number of punches throughout their long lives as silversmiths, 30 years and 28 years respectively. I don't honestly believe this box was a purse, being impractical for such use and it would undoubtedly have suffered badly with internal scratches as well as minor dents if metal coins had been rattling around inside it. A small tobacco box is more likely.

[Traintime]

Thank Heavans, someone who accepts that makers may have used more stamps than the known samples. Hopefully, they'll enter your one into the archives for research samples.
Also, I applaud your line of reasoning on the use: eliminate the impossible and whatever is left, however simple, must be the answer. Holmes and Poirot would be proud.
No chance of residual scents I would guess.
Respectfully, not God.