Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
hpidaves
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Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby hpidaves » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:24 pm

The hallmarks are pretty worn on this 7-1/2" gravy ladle, so I'm not sure of the city. It has the lion passant and the maker (R.S), so I checked for that maker's mark and found Robert Scott II in New Castle. But as I said, I'm not sure of the city -- and the date code is also worn away. I'm not sure if there was a duty mark or not.

Also, it has a very odd monogram -- a ram or goat sitting upright. I'm not sure what that's all about.

Any help is appreciated.

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hpidaves
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby hpidaves » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:48 pm

Is the goat perhaps Masonic?

silvermakersmarks
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby silvermakersmarks » Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:06 am

I think that this is more likely to be Robert Sallam of London. Newcastle marks before the duty mark was introduced did not have the "pip" at the bottom of the lion passant mark so it can't be Newcastle.

Phil

hpidaves
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby hpidaves » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:46 pm

So you think there never was a duty mark, dating this prior to 1785?

hpidaves
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby hpidaves » Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:14 pm

Most of the date letter is worn away, but the circular left side of the letter with a line coming down to the edge leads me to think a script "Q", 1771.

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Also, the city code does appear to be the crowned leopard head.

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silvermakersmarks
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby silvermakersmarks » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:31 am

I agree - 1771 Q looks very likely:

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Phil

hpidaves
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby hpidaves » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:24 am

Phil,
Thanks so much for the help -- I didn't notice the "pip" on the bottom of the lion passant mark. It's amazing how the tiniest detail can really open everything up!

Thanks again,
Dave

trevorg
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby trevorg » Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm

Hello,
Whilst the engraving of the crest is not fully clear it is not dissimilar to that of Hamilton, Scotland being a demi-goat affrontee, holding between the fore-legs a human heart, all ppr. Reference Fairbairns Book of Crests, plate 128.4.
Regards,
Trevor.

hpidaves
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Re: Worn marks on Gravy Ladle - Goat Monogram

Postby hpidaves » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:07 pm

Trevor,
The goat is indeed holding a heart -- see the new photo taken under 10x magnification.

Thanks,
Dave

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