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Dutch Spoon gelegenheidslepel copy or real 18th centery?

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:26 am
by ETH
Hello,

I have a silver spoon (gelegenheislepel). The back of the spoon looks really flat to me but the hallmarks look right. Doe anybody know if this spoon is 18th centery or is it a later copy with fake hallmarks?

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Many thanks!

Re: Dutch Spoon gelegenheidslepel copy or real 18th century?

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:44 am
by oel
Cast ornamental Apostle spoon Philippus with Cross Staff, the "braided" stem has no openings and flat back with inscription. I believe it to be fake marks ; pseudo town mark Amsterdam (#500), pseudo year letter S(#318), pseudo provincial standard mark of Holland ,the lion rampant (#634) , the rubbed pseudo maker's mark appears to be too big oval with dotted borders(#?)



Source; Valse Zilvermerken in Nederland K. A. Citroen.


Peter.

Re: Dutch Spoon gelegenheidslepel copy or real 18th centery?

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:02 am
by ETH
Hi Peter,

Thank you for your opinion. Could the makersmark not be this one from "Merken van Amsterdamse Goud- Zilversmeden E. Voet".

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Kind Regards,
Erwin

Re: Dutch Spoon gelegenheidslepel copy or real 18th century?

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 pm
by oel
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Hi Erwin

In 1777 Amsterdam has used a damaged town town which comes close to your spoon (image above), including the standard mark and year letter S. See below:
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The maker's mark you are showing of Voet is for; Jacobus Buth maker's mark a flounder, registered in Amsterdam 1690-1749 (deceased). I got him in my collection:
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And see:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50983&p=157429&hilit=jacobus+buth#p157429

We also have the Amsterdam silversmith Andries Vis, registered 1741-1799 maker's mark a fish. I have him in my collection.
I show you the back of the spoon:
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The marks:
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Both spoon of Andries Vis and Jacobus Buth have an assay grove. Andries Vis and Jacobus Buth were known makers of cast spoons

Could you give me the exact weight and length of your spoon?

Peter.

Re: Dutch Spoon gelegenheidslepel copy or real 18th centery?

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:32 pm
by ETH
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the example images and photos. The length of the spoon is 18 cm.
The marks on it match pretty well with your examples.

For me the flat backside of the stem looks really odd. Do you have seen this more with "gelegenheidslepels" of the 18th century?
Do you still think the marks are pseudo marks?

Many thanks,
Erwin

Re: Dutch Spoon gelegenheidslepel copy or real 18th centery?

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:59 pm
by oel
And the exact weight of your spoon?