Two spoons dated 1612 - Help needed with hallmarks.

[Mantis]

The hand engraved lettering on the back of the bowls read: Antones Ates 1612. The two spoons are essentially identical except for a few minor details. There are two different types of hallmarks with a total of six (3 on each spoon). One of the spoons appears to be missing some engraved lines to the right of the date.
Are these spoons Dutch? Is this early date likely or are these "false marked spoons" that appear in some of the other posts. Is the figure Saint Joseph holding the baby Jesus? Anything you can tell me about these spoons would be greatly appreciated.



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[johnpekker]

they look very interesting - but i do not think that they are from 1612 or 1614 - the way they are made indicates the turn of the century about 1890 - but the motive is very interesting - the cross of malta and the name .. looks like a grave .. ! greetings , T.
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[Margaux]

The name suggest a dutch origin, but the hallmarks don't match any dutch hallmarks, even not any pseudo hallmarks I know of.
May be it is a replica from the far east?
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[silverport]

Hello

Antones Ates is a Portuguese name. Antones = Anthony; Ates = family's name (signification actually I don't know).

The shown cross is a simplified «Cross of Avis» = a knights order. It's not detailed for lack of space - or maybe lack of craftsmanship? In Portuguese town pavement you could see very often the same cross' simplification; but it's always «Cross of Avis» a symbol of important Portuguese history.

Kind regards silverport
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[silverport]

Hello

After an intense search in 2,500 Old Portuguese Hallmark or old Maker’s Mark I couldn’t find any marks who match. In Portugal were marks from XV century on in use. Shown marks maybe pseudo marks?

Sculpture on top is an iconological symbol of «St Anthony of Padua» - born 1195 in Lisbon - conform a legend Jesus child visited him one night. St Anthony’s host saw a bright shine out of his guest room — afraid of fire host opened the door and saw Jesus child in his guest arms. Begin of attribution.

On spoon handles be also some visual symbolic description — actually I couldn’t see what there is supposed to be.

It could be these spoons are a present by godfathers to her godson «Antones»?

Kind regards silverport
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[silverport]

Hello

In between both spoons are more and more mysterious to me.

Let’s start by a more simple point: Why should get a godson two spoon — he feed him selves later both hands?

Under these suspicions now it seems to me that it is a serial product — by unlucky incidence you’ve got two out of a series of 10? 20? 50? 100? More, much more?

«johnpekker» had already his doubts and placed date of production about 1890!

Sculpture of «St Anthony of Padua», Jesus child, angel’s face and spread wings but also spoon handles look like to be in use from «Stonehenge» time on. Contrary to former mentioned parts spoons bowl and engravings are in an attractive condition.

It’s maybe one more of «Hanau» products? For a Million «Antones» elsewhere in Brazil and Portugal.

Kind regards silverport
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[hurkonides]

Hi,

Ates is a Frisian patronymicum. The combination of the names can be Frisian too. So I would rather say this spoon is Dutch.

Hessel de Walle