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A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:32 am
by Gary Friar
Dear silver enthusiasts,

I have this really nice silver Louis XV Coffee-Pot from Utrecht. Made in 1717.

Unfortunately the maker's marks seems indistinct. At least for me, that is.

Any thoughts on the maker or on the crowned O(?) on the left maybe?


Thank you in advance!



Gary Friar

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:35 am
by Gary Friar
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Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:36 am
by Gary Friar

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:28 am
by dognose
Hi,

Please embed your images.

Trev.

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:13 am
by AG2012
Hi,
Cropped and embedded your images.
Not rushing into conclusions,though.
Regards

Image

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:51 am
by oel
Hi,
Double town mark for Utrecht to indicate 1st standard silver 934/000 fineness.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028#p82869
I believe the crowned O to be a later duty ( free/ onbelast) mark of 1807. Seen in many variations.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028#p80300
Regarding maker's mark, no access to my library until the 4th of February but it could be columns (three), crown for Gerard Baars, registered in Utrecht 1709 - 1746

https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/stam ... R14876.php

Peter.

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:11 am
by Gary Friar
oel wrote:Hi,
Double town mark for Utrecht to indicate 1st standard silver 934/000 fineness.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028#p82869
I believe the crowned O to be a later duty ( free/ onbelast) mark of 1807. Seen in many variations.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028#p80300
Regarding maker's mark, no access to my library until the 4th of February but it could be columns (three), crown for Gerard Baars, registered in Utrecht 1709 - 1746

https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/stam ... R14876.php

Peter.



Thank you for your swift reply and helpful information, Peter.

I came up with Johannes ten Stall. But, i must admit, it is a long shot.

Do you by any change have the maker's mark of Johannes ten Stall?


Kind regards!

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:17 am
by oel
Hi Gary, Johannes ter Stal maker's mark ITS, registered in Utrecht 1689-1740.
After the 4th of February access to my library and perhaps able to tell you more and show you images of the maker's marks mentioned.

Peter.

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:24 pm
by oel
Hi Gary,

Not the maker's mark of Gerard Baars. Please show us an enlarged clear image of this so far unknown makers mark. It could be an over-struck.

Best,

Peter.

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:13 pm
by oel
Image

Hi Gary,

After I contacted my connection at the Centraal Museum Utrecht;
https://www.centraalmuseum.nl/en/explor ... NrEALw_wcB

I can inform you what you probably already know;
This whopper of a coffee pot was auctioned at Christie’s in 2006. The central Museum of Utrecht supported by the Vereniging Rembrandt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereniging_Rembrandt was outbid by a private buyer. The firm of Aardewerk The Hague later showed and sold this coffee-pot at the Tefaf 2007 in Maastricht.
https://www2.tefaf.com/home

Image
Image
At the time, Christie’s and the firm of Aardewerk attributed the coffee-pot to Johannes ten Stall. The maker’s mark supposed to be a (curry)-comb in a shield. The maker’s mark is not shown in to me known literature about silversmiths registered in Utrecht during the 18th century.
My guess perhaps it’s in the family name ten Stall (in the Stable), a family crest with a (curry)comb? You could write to Christie’s and ask why they made this attribution.
I will try to get some extra information, please inform us if you find out more about this particular maker’s mark. Thanks for your cooperation.


Peter

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:58 am
by oel
On known objects made by Johannes ten Stall, it shows his maker's mark ITS is under a comb. This suggests that the maker's mark a comb in a shield should be sought in Ten Stall's family. Johannes had no sons or brothers who were also silversmiths, ergo family members are not eligible. Indeed his father-in-law was a silversmith, using TVL as his maker's mark. Of course, there is still the possibility that a master, without any ties to the family ten Stall, has used the maker’s mark a comb in a shield. Verification is a problem because the copper mark plate (insculpatieplaat) of Utrecht's silver & gold guild, years 1670-1710 with the names of the silversmiths and their maker’s mark has not been saved.
NB. Johannes ten Stall made mainly Roman Catholic ecclesiastical silver.


Peter

Gratitude Janjaap Luijt https://agandau.nl/

Re: A Fine Dutch silver Coffee-Pot.

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:30 am
by Gary Friar
Thank you gents, once more.. its very much appreciated.

Peter stands correct, this piece was bought at Aardewerk in 2007. I did find the original invoice just the other day. And Johannes ten Stal it is!

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

With regards to the maker's mark. The theory that the comb should be
interpreted as a stable (of some sort) seems plausible. I will keep it at that.

Kind regards,

Gary Friar