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Date of these Leiden forks please

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:10 am
by SilverK
Here's a simple one for those with the right books. These dessert forks were made, I believe, by Willem van den Goorberg in Leiden near the end of the 18th century. I'm trying to get the correct date for them, but since I can't find a chart with pictures of 18th century Leiden marks I can't establish the correct date, not helped by the ambiguity of the date letter which could be a J or T. As a result, I'm not even sure if the date falls into the 1759-1783 cycle or the 1784-1807 cycle. Could someone help by identifying the exact date, please?

Does anyone know of an on-line location where the pre-19th century Dutch marks are all laid out in picture from for people like me who don't have the right books?

Thanks very much,

silverk.

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Re: Date of these Leiden forks please

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:57 am
by oel
Hi Silverk,

The maker's mark W.G for Willem van de(n) Goorberg, registered in Leiden 1779-1816..? Year letter slanted capital T for 1801, during the end of the last alphabet, the province standard mark of Holland, the lion rampant seen in a shield without crown.
Willem van den Goorberg was born on 8 June 1754 in Delft. He worked as a silversmith in Leiden from 1779 to 1816...? 1833 (died).
https://www.openarch.nl/elo:61d21dcc-a6 ... ec4ff38c42
During the Leiden guild period he used two maker's marks; W.G an W:G in a rectangle, during the French occupation, Kingdom of Holland 1807-1812 maker's mark Wg in a"square"shield. Later his maker's mark conform French rule in a lozenge: G above an Anchor 1812-1816....
I believe you know both sites below, for the moment not much more to find online and both have a commercial goal:
https://keuren.zilver.nl/author/tackenco/page/44/
http://wiki.gzu-online.com/index2.php?p ... 700&dd_to=


Source;
Karel A. Citroen, Dutch Goldsmiths' and Silversmiths' Marks and Names prior to 1812
W. Koonings De keuring van goud en zilver tijdens het Koninkrijk Holland
Waarborgholland, ËśNetherlands' Responsibility Marks since 1797
Leids Zilver Stedelijk museum de Lakenhal -Leiden
L.B. Gans Nederlands Goud- & Zilvermerken van Voet,


Peter.

Re: Date of these Leiden forks please

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:43 am
by SilverK
Hi Peter,

Thanks very much indeed for your very fast and informative reply. I rather thought they were 1801, but I was hoping they would be a little earlier given their 18th century design!

I'm aware of those sites, of course, but I'm hoping that someone someday will come up with a Dutch equivalent of silvermakersmarks.co.uk which has both British makers marks and British date letters, all in an easy to find format.... and not for commercial purposes! I was hoping that it existed already and I'd just missed it.

Best regards,

silverk.