False marks ?

[joho]

Hi All. I suspect the marks on this spoon are pseudo and that it dates to late 19th century, but would be grateful for any opinions or information. The spoon itself is overall gilded. The stem is triangular in cross section and the lower half has animal fur textured engraving. The terminal from the front appears to be an owl? but from the back is more like a hoof. There are 4 marks to the back of the bowl. 1: Possibly 3 fishes 2: Date letter ?G 3: Lion rampant facing left. 4: Co-joined PL ?. The word Drechterlant is engraved to back of bowl. Many thanks John

[AG2012]

Hi,
Dregterlant was Dutch ship. Marks are not British.
Regards

[joho]

Thanks AG2012. Very interesting about name of ship. I looked it up and see it was travelling between Batavia and Netherlands in 1692. Regards Joho.

[oel]

Hi Joho,

Great Find or dubious find?

Town mark of Enkhuizen being: 3 herrings placed under each other in a crowned shield

Your spoon, this type of town mark used before 1663 or not?

The year letter G for 1642/43 as it should be with the correct town mark of Enkhuizen

The year letter G on your spoon



Maker's mark PL conjoined into a monogram could be for: Jan Palenstein registered silver guild Enkhuizen 1640-1664

Are there no zig/zag marks on your spoon made by the assayer to check the silver standard? There should be if 17th century

For Enkhuizen see:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028
Dregterlant refers to the dike board & polder board (regional water authorities) of Dregterlant (15th century or older)
https://books.google.nl/books?id=Xbs_AA ... nt&f=false
http://www.ngw.nl/heraldrywiki/index.ph ... regterland
The sailing vessel Dregterland was build later around 1689
Dregterlant, ship, chamber Enkhuizen, mentioned as coming from the Netherlands 20 October 1689, arrived at Batavia coming via Cape of Good Hope from the Netherlands, 169 men 25 October 1689, same date destined towards Ceylon and to transfer master Otto van Thiel of Marken and other officers of the yacht Purmer to the Dregterlant 25 October 1689

However we have a problem. The provincial lion rampant in a crowned shield was introduced in Enkhuizen in 1663 together with year letter A, the start of a new alphabet.

Your spoon;the lion looks a little odd and lost his crown
The year letter G for Enkhuizen 1669-70 and provincial lion rampant for 1st standard silver fineness 934-945/1000 minimum



Best,

Peter

[joho]

Hi Peter. Thank you for your excellent research. I can confirm that there is no zig zag assay scrape. It would seem that the spoon is much later, with spurious marks pretending to be Enkhuizen 17th century. Anyway, it was interesting learning something about Drechterlant, both the region and the sailing ship!

Thanks again
John

[Joerg]

Sorry, I am not an expert in Dutch marks. I just noticed looking at the pictures that some of the marks look casted. Mainly the makers mark PL looks like cast. Is this just the picture or...? Can you check?
Regards
Jörg

[joho]

You are right Jorg, the background to the maker's mark has a rough/cast like finish. The other marks less so, and the date letter background looks normal. Regards John