beakers ww2

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Hose_dk
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beakers ww2

Postby Hose_dk » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:35 pm

I smell a fantastic story. Bought 2 rather uninteresting beakers. But they seem to be more interesting than expected.
Image
Image

Image
Image
Text is Oblt. Machat over 15.10.42 over Vickers Wellington
and Oblt. Machat over 28.2.43 over Wellington

Seem as datemarks are older than inscription. And are we in the airplane during WW2 - please elaborate what we can guess about purpose.
Size for a schnaps-

oel
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby oel » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:54 pm

Hi Hose,

1st image maker’s mark B under/between two stars in shield for; C.L.J. Begeer, registered in Utrecht used 1904-1951, Minerva head with regional assay office letter B for Utrecht and year letter G for 1941
2nd image maker’s mark of C.L.J Begeer, registered in Utrecht used 1904/1951, Minerva head with regional assay office letter B for Utrecht, and year letter H for 1942
In German Oberleutnant can be abbreviated as Oblt and Machat could be a family name
Vicker Wellington a British long range medium bombber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington

Wellington bomber British and nicknamed widow maker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX8eLNz13V0
If it are small beakers, yes for genever or gin
For more information about Begeer see:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28590

Best,

Peter

agphile
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby agphile » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:01 pm

Oberleutnant Stefan Machat was a nightfighter pilot. There is an online reference to him shooting down a Wellington in Tunisia on 19 April 1943. If these beakers were trophies for his kills, might there be another somewhere with the April 1943 date?

Hose_dk
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby Hose_dk » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:35 pm

Thanks for the reply.
They are genever size.
And yes I saw the reference to name, but did not read and find the Tunesia date. I must see deeper into text.
The beekers in itself are very commen not much, but if there is a ww2 reference they rise to a mere interesting status.

Hose_dk
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby Hose_dk » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:45 pm

MACHAT, Stefan. 15/16.10.42 Oblt., Erg.St./NJG 2. 28.02.43 Oblt., 4./NJG 2. 23/24.04.43 Oblt., 4./NJG 2 (?) KIA - Ju 88 C-6 (R4+GM) shot down by a British MTB in the Mediterranean. c.01.44 Oblt. in 4./NJG 2. Credited with 2 victories.

file:///C:/Users/Søren/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/R6UWSVKC/Lw%20Offz%20-%20L-R%20-%20Apr%202016.pdf

OH its him and the dates match. How did they end up in Denmark?

agphile
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby agphile » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:38 pm

http://aircrashsites.co.uk/air-crash-si ... ad-moor-3/
The above site has a bit about Machat - not to do with the Wellington crash it starts with, but with the later fate of the trainees who survived that crash.

Hose_dk
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby Hose_dk » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:54 am

thanks, interesting text.
Amazing I found these 2 at a flee marked. Seller knew it was silver and I paid 11 euro for both. A bit more than silver scrap value. Some people dont like engravings on silver they want it pure and fresh. But I often find that engravings contain a solvable proviens. These art deco beakers do not give much in themselves, but this time it gave memories from the past. It became a great find.

Hose_dk
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby Hose_dk » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:44 pm

Latest development.
I was approache asked to sell the 2 cups. At first i declined, but my curriosity was started. I therefor reopened my research, this time not regarding my cups. But the subject in general.
Ehren Pokal des Luftwaffe. From this I learned.
My cups are not aquired by the pilot. A tradition among nightfigters was to give a smal beaker for every confirmed kill.
I fornd a dealer he has han an alpaca ehrencup and 22 silver cups. One presended after every confirmed kill.
He also writes that in 40 years he has never see even one of these silvecups. But read more below.
He also writes that the tradition existed only among the Night fighters.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

It looks like we talk a very limited item. Given to Night fighters for every confirmed kill. By the regiment.
Thanks to the person that made me searc again.

The google luftwaff silber cup gives a lot of images and the possibility to do research.
https://www.google.dk/search?biw=1600&b ... ahxld0RDe8

Hose_dk
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby Hose_dk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:23 pm

[quote="Hose_dk"]Latest development.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )
/quote]

OK got the point. The item was already sold and no price was there. Could be it was a dealer I didnt look what else he had. It was the text I found interesting.
But fair enough the essens I have quated. And no selling/buying was intended.

Goldstein
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Re: beakers ww2

Postby Goldstein » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:12 am

Hi Hose_dk -

just to correct your story:

the so called "Abschußbecher" (shoot down beaker) were a tradition among the fighter and bomber pilots of the German Luftwaffe (airforce) - given to the successful pilot by his comrades in the squadron. Due to the length of the war and the high number of aerial victories (often over 100), it came out of fashion again. For this purpose, markings were painted on the tail surfaces of the aircraft. That was cheaper!

Image
Image

Regards
Goldstein


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