Real or Hanau?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
TammyG
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Location: Florida

Real or Hanau?

Postby TammyG » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:58 pm

These are spoons that were sent in 1967 to my maternal grandfather in the US when my great-grand mother in England died .They have literally been in a box for the past 40 years.
http://cid-6d843b14b7e3a951.spaces.live.com/
There are marks on the front & back of the bowl; on the front
930 in rectangle, crowned O, horse head with 2 bars underneath & lion with key stamped over, the back has BHJ, the lion, Q, F, & the leopard.
At 4.5cm & 1.5cm from the top handles there is a 3cm circle with a minerva with the letter m,w or b?
There is a smaller circle (2cm) at 9cm & 8cm from the top which has a Script "D".
The longer spoon measures 195cm & 65g; the shorter is 170cm & 67g.
My great-grand father, Ernest William Smith, was an Engish war correspondent/journalist who's correspondance is archived at UT-Austin.
Thank you for any input.
Tammy
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:00 am

Hi Tammy,

Could you post some close ups of the marks?
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TammyG
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:55 pm
Location: Florida

Postby TammyG » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:53 pm

Hello Doos,
I zoomed & cropped the best to my ability. My Mother-in-law is in NYC with my camera or I would have retaken the letter d on the small spoon and the marks on the back of the larger spoon. The pics have a golden hue which I think is from my desk. I have never polished them and they are a shiny silver, 40 years in newspaper sure didn't hurt them!
Have a wonderful weekend,
Tammy

http://cid-6d843b14b7e3a951.spaces.live.com/
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2209patrick
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Postby 2209patrick » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:35 pm

I enhanced your pictures some.
First picture looks like London import marks for 1891.

Image

Image

Image

Pat.
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TammyG
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Location: Florida

Postby TammyG » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:55 pm

Greetings from the Land of Palm Tree,
I agree. Thanks for the input. Pics are nice.
Tam
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:24 am

Hi,

The crowned O's are Dutch pseudomarks, so seems to be consistent with the import period.
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TammyG
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:55 pm
Location: Florida

Postby TammyG » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 pm

Thanks Doos,
I have another spoon which I suspect is Dutch and a silver box which has many(pseudo?) marks. I will submit them as soon as I get my camera back. I hope that is acceptable considering the previous outcome. I have a few pieces of British silver, an Italian piece and some sort of Czarist Medal(which I believe has something to do with Ernest's relationship to Tolstoy). My understanding is that I should submit them to the appropriate forums.
Tam
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:00 am

Hi Tammy,

Post every item in a separate thread.
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TammyG
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Location: Florida

Postby TammyG » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:02 pm

Hello,
I have found two new marks on the front of both spoons. The smaller spoon's are more clear. Both marks are very small & seem to have been cast seperately; maybe an applique or mounts? On the top of the smaller spoon there are two angels or cherubs holding an urn (depicting the ascension?), in the middle of the urn is the soldier's profile with a roman numeral IV in the helmet. On the middle of the stem is the script letter D or maybe a script "gD". On the back of the bowl of the smaller spoon is a scene depicting a baby being held up and three people with various items.Maybe a reference to L’Adorazione dei Magi. The larger of the spoon has the soldier profile with IV in helmut on the bottom of the of another similar but different depiction of L’Adorazione dei Magi; the letter D or gD is also on the middle of the stem. ImageImageImageImage
Thanks,
Tammy
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dinio
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Postby dinio » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:29 pm

Hi Tammy,

What is in the helmet of the Minerva's head is a letter identifying the assay office. Thus it is not IV but M instead which indicates the Schoonhoven assay office.
The date letter is a gothic letter O indicating year 1898 : see http://www.925-1000.com/Fnetherlands_Date_Code.html. So the import mark date letter could be a 'c' upside down, indicating also year 1898.

Hope this helps.
Dinio
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:26 am

Hi,

It looks like Schoonhoven to me as well. The Dateletter is the G from 1891 (it is shown upside down) .. resembles the O of 1898.
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TammyG
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Location: Florida

Postby TammyG » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:30 pm

Hello,
I have new photos when turned 180 degrees clearly shows the letter G; also I have clearer pictures of the importer; maybe Barnet Henry Joseph?
ImageImageImage
Thank you for your information, I truely appreciate your replies.
Tammy
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:04 pm

Hi,

Yes it's B.H.Joseph & Co.

They were known importers of silver from the Netherlands including the work of J.v Straten & Co. of Hoorn and A de Pleyt of Schoonhoven.

Trev.
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TammyG
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:55 pm
Location: Florida

Postby TammyG » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:00 am

Thank you for the reply, so are you suggesting that they may be the work of J. v Straten & Co of Hoorn or A de Pleyt of Schoonhoven? I have searched the Dutch site and haven't been able to find anything regarding marks for them. Thanks again for your response.
Tam
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:30 am

Hi Tam,

No, it was just to confirm the Joseph's mark and to note that they were known importers of Dutch made articles including those of Schoonhoven origin.

Regards Trev.
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